How did your young person successfully get a degree apprenticeship?

[lljkk]

Topic has come up on another thread. Lacking detail on the process, the steps required, the soft skills needed.

I have impression it involves these things:

• Searching..,. somewhere online (where?): knowing where these things are advertised
• Preparing initial application with long personal statement tailored to the specific apprenticeship
• Being prepared to go thru screening & competency tests, etc.
• Dressing professionally for every interview (business wear)
• Expecting to dress professionally every day in the job, and go to an office mostly 9-5 weekday hours (is that true?)
• Preparing a professional looking adult-style CV that is tailored to the specific position
• Multiple rounds of panel interviews (how many rounds?)
• Very much selling yourself at each and every contact point until the apprenticeship is secured
• Excellent A-level results (how excellent?)

is that the correct picture? What else is involved in getting a degree apprenticeship? How long did the application process take?

Thank you, that looks exactly what he would love, I’ll show him it straight away.

My DS has secured a degree level apprenticeship, starts this Sept, thought I’d chip in with his experience!

• Searching..,. somewhere online (where?) Indeed & his college sent a newsletter with one advertised which got him rolling
• Preparing initial application with long personal statement tailored to the specific apprenticeship DS tutor at college read through all the PS for Uni & DS adapted it for the 5 apprenticeships he applied for
• Being prepared to go thru screening & competency tests, etc. Online quick fire / timed psychometric testing was stressful & different Qs each time
• Dressing professionally for every interview (business wear) Not in his experience- he wore smart casual, no jeans/ no trainers was the vibe
• Expecting to dress professionally every day in the job, and go to an office mostly 9-5 weekday hours (is that true?) No jeans / no trainers, 1 day in Uni, 1 day WFH
• Preparing a professional looking adult-style CV that is tailored to the specific position They are adults so yes, & cutting & pasting to tailor doesn’t take long- obv proof read
• Multiple rounds of panel interviews (how many rounds?) 5- DS only got through all 5 rounds with two companies
• Very much selling yourself at each and every contact point until the apprenticeship is secured Yes but not over doing it- they wanted to hear about hobbies, Dof E etc too
• Excellent A-level results (how excellent?). Predicted A star, A, B, most advertised as B B B, one specified Maths but he didn’t apply to that one as he’s not doing Maths

Using an old username as outing.

There is a huge variety of degree apprenticeships out there. The one my ds has been accepted into is the PWC Technology Degree Apprenticeship at the University of Birmingham.

I am not sure how he found it, but it is listed as a course on the university website and on UCAS.

It's a study first one, so he does the degree 'normally', as in he starts in September and doesn't work for the company during term time. He has to do 8 weeks of work over the summer breaks, y1 and y2. Y3 is spent at the company (year in industry, again, very normal for this course) and returns in y4 for the final year.

There are some additional things he has to do related to the apprenticeship and his final year project must be approved by both the uni and the company.

He is paid a salary from the first month of uni, all the way through. And his fees are paid for.

Selection process was intense. A game based assessment first. Once he'd passed that he had a recorded video interview. After he'd passed that he had a group exercise, online.

It was incredibly competitive.

He applied through ucas but also had to apply to PWC. He got his offer in March.

It is still dependent on him achieving the required grades, but effectively he has a contextual offer (the uni said it is to recognise the hard work already put in to meet the PWC requirements and the achievement of being selected. So instead of A star, AA, his offer is 3 As. As he did an EPQ, if he gets a A in that, he can get AAB, but must get an A in maths.)

We know a number of people who applied (for this particular course it's a no brainier as if you are unsuccessful, your choice reverts to the Comp Sci degree without the PWC bit). A couple of people made it through to the video interview, one other made it through to the group stages. They were all brilliant students with stellar grades, accomplished extra curricular activities too.

My ds said that his impression was that they seemed to like people who played team sports at any level. And they seemed particularly interested in team work, the phrase was lifting each other up, not letting yourself shine to the detriment of others.

How typical all of this is of the other schemes, I don't know as this was the only one ds was interested in.

Hopefully this is useful for someone!

Thanks Deadlocks & CarpetDiem.

My son did an apprenticeship from 16 in networks, comms and IT- not a degree one but did involve FE college and a BTEC- and he needed 5GCSEsat A-C including maths and English- he is now 25, has earned well ever since and progressively improved on his salary and these days recruiters are far more concerned about his technical skills and client project experience than any degree.

With respect, I'd say your initial post comments are a little old fashioned and don't really tally with the brave new online application world, automatic computer reading of applications, etc.

The process varies between employers. When my son was applying, for some, he went through the stages very quickly, with virtual immediate response after some stages going through to the next stage or a rejection, whereas others took weeks, and I think a couple took a couple of months, to respond and move to the next stage (or reject). The job he eventually got took about 3 months between first application and being given the job offer.

Sometimes it's all online with no "in person" interviews at all. Some do a formal interview online via teams or skype or similar. Our son applied for quite a few jobs and got through to final stages for several, with 4 job offers in the end, but only ever physically attended one interview!

Workwear is mostly smart casual, even for professional office roles, formal attire, such as a business suit, would look very odd these days. Obviously not ripped jeans and a heavy metal T shirt, but certainly smart chino trousers and a button up shirt is perfectly fine.

Yes, yes and more yes, to tailoring the cv, cover letter and personal statement to the job itself, although in reality, it's not those anymore - you just fill in boxes during the online application process rather than attaching a covering letter or cv - so you need the in a word document where you can copy and paste the relevant information/sentences into the boxes on screen. The applications are typically "read" by computer algorythm so you need to try to match words you enter against the job description/specification. Every chance a "human" won't read any of the early stages of the application, especially in larger firms.

Also you need to keep a control sheet/spreadsheet of who you've applied to, deadlines for each stage, etc., so that you don't miss a stage as it's very easy to miss a deadline for stages. Some will have specific deadlines for everyone, some will be based on date of submission of earlier stage, i.e. 5 days after they give link/instructions for the next stage.

Also keep a screenshot/printout of the job advert, description, requirements, etc., as sometimes you can no longer access them after they've been taken off the website. Same with keeping a note of the email address you've used (if you have more than one), and also check email spam folders etc as you don't want to miss an email.

The truth is: it’s mostly older people already working in many companies who get the degree apprenticeships. The stats for 18 year olds are poor and nowhere near those going to uni. A tiny percentage. Often grades of BBB would not be enough. It’s like where unis say a minimum, but no one has that!

I think I heard the govt was looking at Ucas applications for apprenticeships. Not sure. At the moment it’s very competitive for 18 year olds and some degrees offered are basic, eg BEng and not MEng. This means progression is capped. For most dc, at the moment, they are not an alternative to uni.

Tony Blair wasn’t wrong in wanting to have a higher skilled workforce. Other nations do.

Mn on Apprenticeships drives me wild. Me and @NotDonna meet on many such threads. 👋

People suggest them as if they are a second choice. Oh if your son doesn't like/failed/dropped out of uni, then tell him to apply for an apprenticeship. Dream on. They aren't a second choice. Many students really really want one. They turn down Uni, to take one.

One person said that :
"Generally we get our top students onto apprenticeships, and the rest go to uni."

Ds1 is at Nottingham Uni, PwC Accountancy. He did on the tests, applied, interviewed. I was seriously impressed when I heard him being interviewed. He also applied to EY, Deloitte, and others, also got offered a job with BDO, a training contract. He's finished his first year at Uni. In September of Year 2 he'll work for PwC for 4 months in London paid, then start Uni in January.

Please correct MN'ers every time you now see someone suggest a child goes for an apprenticeship. It's not the next best thing.

Just looked at the stats: around 5000 under 19s got degree apprenticeships last year. 683650 people were accepted through ucas to start an undergrad degree course. Obviously not all 18 year olds and not all full time but a staggering difference.

The best Dc will still look at Oxbridge. Imperial and LSE plus others because their degrees are valuable @Oblomov23 . However the idea a degree apprenticeship is an alternative to uni for most dc is pie in the sky. Lower level apprenticeships : yes. However look how long it then takes to get the degree. A good grad will be earning a lot more, much more quickly.

Of course Fizz, sorry , I know! the best go to Oxbridge.
After that, the competition to get on say a PwC Flying Start or similar is so competitive, Uber competitive. 5000+ students apply for 250 PwC Flying start places. That's majorly competitive.

@TizerorFizz not sure where you’re getting your salary data from. I can only talk about the Big4 Apprenticeships (accountancy) that are level 7.
The Big4 take on grads (who’ve spent 3 or 4 years at uni) and apprentices straight out of school. The apprentices in their first year are paid less than the grads (circa £25k) But by 2nd year they’re paid the same as the incoming grads (circa £35k) So at 19 my DD is earning exactly the same as a 1st year graduate and doing the same exams, work and responsibilities. It’s taken the graduate 3 to 4 years to get to associate level, whereas it’s taken DD one. The progression from then on is parallel. So level 7 apprenticeships cut 2-3 years of training. She will be fully qualified ACA in 3.5yrs. Considerably shorter that uni plus grad scheme route. oblomov23’s DS is slightly different as he’s on a Flying Start programme that is an amalgamation of my DDs apprenticeship scheme and ‘going to uni’. So he’ll have a degree as well as the post grad ACA qual. His takes slightly longer at 4 years but still quicker than uni plus grad scheme.
The BIG issue with apprenticeships isn’t the time or the pay it’s the actual subject. If a DC is certain that’s the career for them then it’s a no brainer.
I’m reminded of a thread on MN a couple of months ago where ppl were debating whether a teen should take the Big4 level 7 apprenticeship (like Oblomiv’s DS and my DD) or accept a place reading Economics (I think it was Econ) at Cambridge. A very valid question that a few posters were flabbergasted by. It was an interesting debate but it went some way to show that these degree apprenticeships are definitely not second choices.

F too

Apologies @TizerorFizz I’ve re-read your post and you’re talking about the time & earning of level 3/4/5 apprenticeships. I think the 3 of us are in agreement.

There’s simply not enough degree apprenticeships to make them a viable alternative. There are approx 40 on DDs and that’s across the whole of the U.K. You can easily be the only one in the location.
The other thing to be mindful of is that it’s a training contract so if you fail the exams you’re fired.

This means progression is capped. For most dc, at the moment, they are not an alternative to uni.
What's to stop them doing a masters afterwards or a level 7 apprenticeship in the first place.

My DS started his degree apprenticeship once he worked for the company. He dropped out of uni. Got a temp job on a packing line in pharma, they liked him a lot and offered him a job,then he did an level apprenticeship which he did really well. It wasmt that necessary because he had good A levels in Maths and Physics Then they offered him a degree apprenticeship.
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He will be starting year 3 next month and is doing really well and pay

He is the only non school leaver that is doing the degree apprenticeship at his company as far as i am aware, the other 3 were school leavers.

Following

@TizerorFizz

Tony Blair wasn’t wrong in wanting to have a higher skilled workforce.

The aim wasn't wrong, but with most things done by Blair/Brown, the implementation and actual detail was stupid leaving us with the problems we currently face.

The expansion of the unis was the bigger problem in 2013.

@NotDonna In some work settings, eg engineering, MEng is the gold standard. These are 4 year degrees and pretty much full time. These grads fast track to being chartered if they are good enough. BEng doesn’t automatically lead to chartered status and most apprenticeships are BEng. Yes, employers might sponsor a separate MEng but they might take employees that already have it at no expense to them. It is buyer beware and not all apprenticeships are equal.

However there are not enough apprenticeships but in my DHs company the 22 year old MEng grads are valued for their in depth academic knowledge. Many hit the ground running pretty well and no existing employee has had to try and train them from age 18 where they know nothing. If this wasn’t the case, Sheffield, Bristol. Southampton and other great engineering unis would be half empty. They are not.

DD was one of over 1000 who applied for 1 civil service apprenticeship.

There was a long online application and then she went to a selection day. She was surprised that she was the youngest at 18, with people in their 30s 40s and 50s applying.

She then had an (online) interview, and references taken up before being given a conditional offer. She was predicted A* A A B and had to get a UCAS score equivalent to 3 x A.

She dressed in office-wear for her interview and most people there were dressed in suits although that might be cos the Civil Service is perceived as stuffy and traditional. In reality their dress code is 'dress for your day' so she wears smart business wear for days with meetings and jeans/trainers/hoodie for days when she doesn't.

@Badbadbunny if you chose to inform yourself properly, you will find that it was the Cameron government who fucked up the implementation.

I agree, degree apprenticeships are very competitive- there are far fewer places available than there are at uni, so of course they are! Students who apply to them successful are definitely incredibly organised and driven. I believe there are plans for a more central application portal, similar to UCAS, but none currently exist, and some are only advertised on company websites. Anyone who suggests they're an easier option, doesn't have a clue.

You'll also likely be competing against professional adults with experience in the field.

We always advise students applying for these to do UCAS as a back up- because it's very possible they won't get an offer.

The "back up" option to uni is really a Level 3 apprenticeship- this is a qualification equivalent to A-levels, but you can start one post A-levels, and it can be a really good way for a young person to get their foot in the door at a company- those that offer higher level apprenticeships will often take a good employee all the way through. A starting point for this can be talking to your local FE college, or looking on company websites and so on.

The qualifications gained on a Level 3 apprenticeship can be used to apply for a traditional degree, or to continue in that field.

Ironically, even though in theory you can start a level 3 apprenticeship straight after GCSEs, a lot of the time, it's really hard to secure a level 3 apprenticeship at 16, because there's so much competition from 18yos!

If your child is interested in gaining work experience whilst also getting a degree, then the other option is degrees with a placement year in industry. These are also a really good option, and often lead to job offers for graduation- and they're a bit less competitive than degree apprenticeships.

DS is doing a degree apprenticeship has 3 grade A at A level and already had work experience. He had a paper round from 13, worked in a kitchen when doing A levels and then worked in a warehouse. He was also in air cadets and rose to the highest rank possible. He was encouraged to apply for a degree apprenticeship with one of the forms he did work experience with. But decided not to because he realised that career was not for him at all, it was a shame as they really liked him. He worked nights at an airport for around 18 months during 2021/22 as it was lockdown and that time was tough and his preferred job didn’t recruit during that time, he started his degree apprenticeship last year aged 21.

He is on 25k PA and gets a fully funded degree, him having a lot of jobs at such a young age was good plus he had good work experience, his work experience was in a research office for a global food company, in a University lab and for an engineering firm. My brother offered him work experience in his company which is big pharma in the States but he didn’t take up the offer. I would say the work experience is very much who you know. But all that paid work and work experience showed people and team skills. The one quality DS has is he can communicate well with anyone, I feel that’s something that can’t really be taught though it can be modelled by parents, relatives and friends.

I would say it really doesn't matter what level they reached in Air cadets, what matters (certainly with computer science and engineering) is a passion for their subject. What interests have they explored? What have they created?
DS had booked himself on several free summer schools and had already "invented" things he wanted to discuss with them at his interview at his interview.
He was also offerred a place at Durham uni but turned it down for this apprenticeship and he has totally loved it.
Dress code? Like a scruffy student at a beach barbecue.

For posters with dc going into 6th form interested in STEM and Engineering. Look into Arkwright Scholarships.
DD won one and he hsd some great experiences through the scheme and will look good on CV