York, Durham, Exeter

[GodessOfThunder]

These universities seem feature in a disproportionate amount of discussion on Mumsnet as institutions commenters see as desirable for their DC to attend. Obviously they are well regarded universities, but why do they attract more discussion here than other Russell group universities, especially those in northern and midlands post-industrial cities such as Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool, Nottingham and Birmingham?

A few possible reasons were suggested by DH:

• They enjoy an undue level of perceived prestige due to being in smaller old cities/towns like Oxbridge
• The Mumsnet user base is skewed towards the SE and biased against post-industrial cities. Mumsnetters are less likely to be familiar with them and hold “grim up north” perceptions.
• There is a “showing off” factor in starting threads and commenting that DC has applied for, or attends, these institutions - the same goes for the “Oxbridge support” threads, the like of which you never see for red bricks.

Does anyone agree, or are there other explanatory factors?

The thing about contextual offers is that they are just that - contextual offers.

The fees young people I know who have been made them have leapt them anyway and got the actual published offer. It seemed to me to be more of a vote of confidence to encourage different backgrounds into certain universities. And that, surely, is a good thing.

My DC went to a school which Bristol favoured with contextual offers (for a short period). Every single student who got one ended up with the actual published grades needed, or better. So thoroughly deserved their places.

My children ended up at unis which didn't favour the school over others - Durham and Cambridge, and likewise leapt the offers.

i really don't like the narrative that DC who go to certain universities from certain schools are weaker candidates on paper.

I agree with many of your points but I can't believe after pages and pages of thus, you are still bracketing York here, even though all the stats suggest it's not 'elitist' or overrated and, in fact, early in this thread tge 'meh' crowd did come out gunning for it. Must say, an awful lot if the same debates and arguments come up over choice of A level subjects. It's a well worn path..

FWIW, I did a trawl of recent MN HE and FE threads. I tallied up universities that were recommended ( ignoring someone who was going against a grain/ offered specific expertise)simply for being desirable. I used mainly the general which uni type threads. Went back some way. These got most mentions:

Oxbridge
Durham
St Andrews
Edinburgh
Imperial
Leeds
Bristol
Lancaster
Newcastle
Manchester
Cardiff
Bath
York

pretty much in that order. So MN hive mind tends to recommend on prestige but also on experience, recent or otherwise of their DC, so that probably is self perpetuating given the not especially broad demographic.

When pastoral issues these raised positive comments :

Bath
Lancaster
York
Birmingham

Queens Belfast is the University recently that got an 'oh no, don't go there' response.

I was talking to a second year at Southampton yesterday. She loves it but said she had never considered it before visiting because no one talked about it.

Oh and Exeter? Meh in my opinion! Bland, and frequently lets students in who miss their offers (sometimes by quite a margin). So they might publish offers of A star AA, but question the staff and students on open days and you'll find many, many get in with less (and those aren't due to contextual offers). My DC gave it a wide berth. So I guess my opinion is coloured by theirs!

Sorry, missed Warwick off first list and Nottingham off second.

FWI, I did find peak MN. Have changed a few details, but not the type of course or the nature of the unis (in fact, they are basically the unis named). Summary:

My DS has chosen his universities to study English. Can anyone tell me about accommodation and sports facilities at Birmingham and Lancaster?

Answers:

^Birmingham? Has he thought of St Andrew's or Edinburgh with those grades?

Lancaster is good but it isn't RG. Has he considered Warwick?

An English degree is pointless. He won't get a job. Why isn't he studying economics ? (changed this one slightly for hyperbole..)^

@Piggywaspushed agree that the MN hive mind has always preferred certain unis. And certain degrees.

When DS1 was applying and we were looking at unis and courses the hive mind view was that only law and medicine were acceptable, or humanities leading to law conversion.

I definitely felt looked down on as DS wanted to study engineering.

Fast forward to today and everyone is looking at STEM degrees.

DD is studying a humanity - at Exeter. She also had an offer from Durham.

In my trawl of many many threads, Exeter was barely mentioned btw OP! Really only mentioned where it was being debated, rather than promoted.

The kings of the SW were Bath and Bristol.

I keep missing pages of posts!
I don't think DC was put off by the fact that he might be meeting people or becoming friends with people who are different from him. He can hold his own with anyone and is very sociable - plus plenty of our friends and family have sent their children to private schools so he's well aware they don't have two heads. I think he just felt beforehand that, with such a significant demographic, it would have a particular feel and would have less ethnic and other diversity than he's used to and would like to continue being part of. It wasn't necessarily a well -thought out position, more of a knee-jerk "I'd rather go to a very diverse uni in a very diverse city". With dc1 we had no options to go and visit anywhere due to COVID so dc1 was making decisions based on what he expected his preferences to be. Dc2 was able to visit and those assumptions were challenged which is a good thing. But I don't think it's necessarily wrong to have some preconceptions, albeit ones which - hopefully - have turned out to be wrong.

I’m not bracketing York in - it’s not mentioned in the post you quote as the data others supplied suggested it shouldn’t be included.

As you say, just your opinion, and ours is completely different!
DC chose Exeter as the course was top of the subject league tables and employability data was good.
Offer was AAB and DC got A*AA.

In reality you’ll find a range of academic and not so academic students at all top 20 or so unis. Some of the ones who are heavily coached for Oxbridge etc crash and burn when they actually get there.

And then, as we’re constantly being told, recruiters now recruit blind, so it really doesn’t matter much at all which uni you go to.
Now we’re the other side of it as a family, I can see that we worried way too much about it!

You mentioned it in your first sentence !

Very very few crash and burn at Oxbridge. Look at their results!

@AugustaHope Totally agree with the rationale your DS used and others can use the reverse. Just as long as we don’t see anyone as people to avoid.

@Piggywaspushed Also, one poster mentions LSE on Every Single Post! Most mentioned uni!!! Title of a thread, possibly not. It was me and another poster who said Queens Belfast was not a good idea for Law. Note: for Law. On the grounds that other unis which had not been considered are preferred by employers and the op didn’t necessarily realise that. Their choice of course. It was just a discussion. Not a dictat.

Queens Belfast is the University recently that got an 'oh no, don't go there' response.

@Piggywaspushed - Do you remember whether this was in general or just for a specific course ? And, if in general, what the reason was ?

We hire a number of QUB graduates every year alongside those from other RG universities into our offices in Belfast, Reading and London - primarily CS, Maths or Business grads.

In terms of pure technology and solutioning skills, the QUB cohort are usually streets ahead of those from other universities, albeit they aren't usually quite as "confident" 😀

Sorry - yes I did.

What I meant was I then did not include it in the comments I make about the presence of the privately schooled. I only refer to Exeter and Durham in this respect.

I do however, think York is overrated academically on Mumsnet (beyond a couple of humanities subjects) when one looks at its ranking on more academic metrics.

DD has insured Exeter with an offer of AAB. I'd read that her course isn't popular and had a much lower tariff on Discover Uni so it was a tactical choice.

Interestingly I've just checked in clearing and low and behold - is available and now BCC!

I assume they are playing a marketing game here?

I think fewer students must 'crash and burn' at oxbridge because of their selection process. three big hoops to jump. And I speak as a 'chippy' state school parent.
I've seen 4 have to leave Cardiff and Exeter - a result of them letting in below par students on wildly missed grades.

@FemaleEngineer - just checked Exeter and my DS course is also available in Clearing, for non UK applicants, at BCC.

I find that really cheeky/disingenuous of them, seeing as his offer is AAA.

@lastdayatschool I totally agree!

@GodessOfThunder sorry should have added a bit more explanation.

This uses the Sunday Times overall league table uni ranking on the x-axis, and plots against the 1st generation percentage for each uni; y-axis. First generation being those where neither parent has been to uni - there's undoubtedly also a very technical definition for 1st Gen. The graph shows fairly starkly the increasing likelihood that 1st Gen students attend a lower ranked uni - recognising that lower ranked still offer a range of relevant and good courses.

The 1st Gen data is from the ST, however there is probably a newer release now on HESA - I've not checked. However the single year movement is unlikely to be significant. The ST data indicates overall first gen percentage of around 42%.

Whilst the devil really is in the detail this still provides a decent indicative view.

Given 130 odd unis in each of the three undergrad focused League Tables, I've not named them on the graph. Attached is the listing of the ST top 30% ish. Plus their Graun and CUG (latest and last year's) overall rankings

I did wonder whether MNHQ could run some simple analytics to get to this. piggy you've saved them the trouble.😀

That’s really insightful @boys3 . Not trying to delegate a research burden to you… but do you know what percentage of the total university student body in the UK are the first generation to go to uni?

I am surprised by how highly ranked St Andrew’s is, reading MN threads, I had the impression it was lower down the league tables snd even overrated then. Sniffy comments about the Royal Family, etc.

@Margrethe roughly from the ST data 42%. Just looked and the HESA figure is almost the same at 43%; however HESA does have 7% don't knows; and then 50% at least one parent did attend uni to get to 100%.

Though to follow on from that within the UK nations breaking down student domicile by UK nation the first gen figures are:

England 44%
Wales and Northern Ireland both 40%
Scotland 36%

A quick scan makes it look as if 1st gen uni students are probably living at home and going to local unis. This makes sense to me. Going away to uni is an adjustment for most DC, it would be even harder to do successfully without the encouragement, normalisation and expectations of previous family members.

I had a surprising amount of time on my hands avoiding marking

AStizer noted it was for law, although I didn't note the user names. Much of it was caution about qualifying so I nearly didn't comment but some of it was about isolation and the place itself.