Further Maths with mechanics needed for university entry?

[Reallybadidea]

Just wondering whether anyone knows which universities require this? My son is planning to apply for Maths at university and is doing FM A level. In y13 they can choose between mechanics and statistics. Son would like to do stats as his option. The head of sixth form at his college has told them that some universities require mechanics, but a bit of Googling hasn't found any university entry requirements that state this.

Does anyone know whether this is the case and which universities do ask for this?

I am a former STEM admissions tutor in a School that encourages FM and DH is a maths professor (both Russell Group). I have never heard of this.

However Mechanics is generally perceived to be the most difficult FM option. It is possible that some Schools of Maths may give more weight to applications containing the Mechanics modules, or use Mechanics as some sort of tie breaker. Again I have not heard of this.

I would hope that all such selection criteria would be published. However I do know that a number of SoMs that encourage but do not require FM mean by this that a candidate unable to elect FM is not disadvantaged, while one who failed to choose it is marked down. That isn’t exactly transparent. Therefore out of an abundance of caution I don’t want to make a blanket statement about Mechanics.

Engineering courses may want this (DBro’s certainly did, admittedly years ago).

Hard to imagine a pure Maths degree course would care.

Stats will be more useful if he is planning to head in a financial maths, econometrics, data direction.

Thanks all, this is really useful. I wonder whether he misheard, because as a pp said, it makes sense for engineering but maths less so. He's also considering MORSE so I think stats will be much more useful. He is doing open days currently so can at least ask the question directly.

I could be wrong about this, but DS2 (2022-2023 applications round for Engineering) didn't specify his FM modules anywhere in his applications, I don't think. And he has offers from good unis. I think your head of maths might be overthinking it. I guess for engineering entry tests (PAT at Oxford, ENGAA at Cambridge I think? Not sure whether there are any others) having a really good understanding of mechanics would be helpful though, and if an applicant is doing physics too the crossover will make the content a bit easier.

Looking at DS2's a level timetable his FM modules seem to be: core pure, mechanics minor, stats minor, extra pure.

(Disclaimer: I know f all about maths!)

Sorry, having re-read you were asking about maths degrees! DS1 is doing maths degree (again at v competitive uni) and will have done the same FM modules as DS2 (same school).

OP, I have had DC who have recently and currently looked at Maths degrees. They researched different unis extensively and did not come across this requirement/preference. Hopefully your DS has misheard. If not, rather than challenge the assertion, simply ask for weblinks to concrete examples; I have used that technique successfully in the past to flush out misinformed assumption masquerading as fact; it usually stops this kind of issue in its tracks.

There are several reasons the requirement for mechanics modules at FM is unlikely: not all schools and colleges offer FM; of those who do, many do not give students a choice of options in FM (my DCs' school does not) and so students may be precluded from taking it; mechanics is covered at a base level in A level Mathematics.

The only time I have seen mechanics requirements mentioned has been in the context of engineering (eg Cambridge encourage exploration of mechanics to the highest possible level even if not via formal exams).

Given your DS is considering MORSE and, presumably, Maths & Stats courses, then it would be potentially detrimental to choose Mechanics over Statistics in his FM options.

Thanks @PacificState and @PerpetualOptimist

DS is pretty sure that he didn't mishear because apparently it was on the PowerPoint too. Good idea about asking for clarification - I think he's going to email and ask which universities he would need it for and see what response he gets. Stats would definitely play to his strengths and interests so he'd need a compelling reason to pick mechanics.

No university is going to require it, because not all schools offer it. Even where the school can teach any of the modules, the choice of which are taken may have to be a "best fit" for those in the further maths group. I taught FM and the group had to agree on which to do.

Cambridge says if they want to do "maths with physics" then they need the FM mechanics option unless they're also doing physics. There's nothing specified there about those applying for maths. However the "application information" document at https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/mathematics recommends that if you have the choice, do pure and mechanics in preference to statistics, and I'm guessing this will be why the school is advising this. But it's definitely not required, and if he's looking at maths/stats or MORSE courses, there's a lot of sense in doing the stats.

My son does engineering at uni. It has a large element of mechanics so he did further maths with a mechanics module to boost his own knowledge in the area. He had to search around local colleges because many only run the simpler module of statistics. He has found it very helpful.

Aha I suspect the Cambridge admissions information could well be the source for this then. It sounds as though mechanics may be seen as the more impressive option, but I don't think it's probably in his best interests overall. Thanks all!

For Cambridge it doesn't actually make a difference to admissions chances, but the department advises taking mechanics anyway. It's absolutely not a hard requirement, and probably more than half of the students on the course haven't done further mech, but there is some reasoning for it.

Firstly, to get in to the maths course you need to pass the STEP exams. STEP has three sections, Pure, Mechanics and Statistics. The pure section only require the core further maths stuff, so doing more pure doesn't help, and the stats requires very little material, I taught it to myself over a week or so. Most of the mechanics section on the other hand is next to impossible if you haven't done at least some further mechanics. Of course, you only answer about half the questions on a STEP paper, so you can choose to just skip mechanics altogether, but it is still a disadvantage to have less choice.

Secondly, the first year of the Cambridge maths course assumes you've done all of the further mechanics available. Dynamics and Relativity is basically impossible if you haven't. There are catchup lectures in the first term, but they are very fast, and typically poorly lectured.

tl;dr mechanics isn't required by Cambridge, but is helpful. If your son prefers stats then he should take it. At the end of the day getting that A* is the most important thing.

Thanks @Tamato that all makes sense. He's doing the MAT rather than STEP. Because this is taken in the autumn, presumably doing mechanics won't be any advantage because that wouldn't have been taught yet anyway?

MAT has no mechanics at all, it's entirely based on the pure content taught in the first 4 terms.

Thanks @Tamato and everyone else who's replied, really helpful 🙏