naive parent - advice please

[WhyCantPeopleBeNice]

My daughter is in year 12 and we started looking at universities the past weekend. The entry requirements required an A*, A, A for law
I was a little surprised she was pushing so hard when she mentioned she'd been predicted an A, A, A combine that with the potential of contextual offers (due to where we live, disrupted learning and parents having not been to uni) it seems suddenly as though any university is a possibility.

Initially, I was under the impression we look round, see which she likes and she applies for her preferred ones.
The open days however made me realise this isn't just about the university she likes, but also the potential employers engaging with the universities, how the courses are taught and also the other students position...e.g. at Durham, we didn't meet any students who worked whereas Leeds, lots of the students worked.

Financially we can just about afford her accommodation but nothing more so as much as I don't want to restrict her ambitions, I feel if shes with students who also balance work and learning they'll be able to support each other better.

However, shes mentioned both Cambridge and Oxford this weekend and now im thrown, I simply don't know how to support her, what we should be doing or looking at. Especially as it seems there is so much coaching and preparation that goes into Cambridge or Oxford applications years prior to where we are now.

Can anyone offer some wisdom of how I can best help her?

Financially we can just about afford her accommodation but nothing more so as much as I don't want to restrict her ambitions, I feel if shes with students who also balance work and learning they'll be able to support each other better

Do you mean you'll cover the entire cost of accommodation leaving her with the maintenance loan to live on?

What subject does she want to study?

Not every Oxbridge student has been preparing for years. Quite a few suddenly come into their own during sixth form and have a go, in the spirit of nothing ventured nothing gained.

Having said that, law is pretty competitive and at least at Oxford, requires the student to take the LNAT (national admissions test) as well as having excellent grade predictions.

Oh, and Oxbridge require early university application, so by 16 October rather than the following January. Worth knowing!

@Redtaper Assuming the costs are comparable to Leeds and Durham, yes, we'll pay accommodation (non catered)
Anything else she needs outside the maintenance loan would require her working/earning

sorry just realised my original post didnt display the predicated grades correctly making some bold - looking at an A , A , A

One of mine went to Durham and one to Exeter and both worked in coffee shops.

It's worth bearing in mind that accommodation at Oxbridge is vastly cheaper than most other UK unis, because the colleges are rich and own their own accommodation blocks. Most Oxbridge undergraduates never have to go into the private rental market at all. It's counter intuitive, but it's true - being an oxbridge undergrad requires less financial support from your parents. Most colleges also have financial help and bursaries for low income students. (And no, you absolutely don't 'have' to go on endless skiiing trips or buy masses of sporting equipment and ball gowns, and you won't be a social outcast if you don't do these things.)

Loads of 'ordinary' kids who have not been coached up the back teeth do well on Oxbridge applications. Let her give it a go if she wants to - nothing lost if she doesn't get in. And loads of free advice available for you here!

No expert but have one child at Cambridge and one child at a different uni (already mentioned in this thread).
I think at most unis a lot of students work.
It's not permitted to work as an undergraduate at Cambridge in term time (I think Oxford is the same).
My DC there simply wouldn't have time to work during the term - they are genuinely working over 50-60 hours a week and more during exam season. They do work in the summer holidays and try and earn as much as possible then. However living costs are significantly cheaper at Cambridge (in their college at least) than my other DC.
They easily manage on their maintenance loan (we top this up to the maximum but no more).
Other DC works a lot at uni (bar and other work) and has plenty of time to do so without it impacting on uni work at all. They earn really well. We pay quite a bit more for accommodation than we do for the DC at Cambridge though. They would struggle on their maintenance loan which is the same amount as other child despite them both being quite careful with money.
Some colleges at C also have bursaries for students who get the full student loan (DC college does) and these are not always advertised beforehand.

Oh and also DC did no "preparation" for Cambridge. They had a very supportive (state) school who did help with the personal statement (DC wrote it obviously but some of the teachers then advised on improving it) but nothing else.
Honestly, C/O is a bit of a lottery. If your child wants to apply there, encourage them but also encourage them to hold it lightly. Fabulous students won't get an offer because pretty much everyone applying is very academic and would do well there.
I was delighted my other DC decided not to apply because it's tough being there as well. My DC there is very happy but also very pressured in a way they have never been before. My DC elsewhere will do just as well (in terms of degree and life) but will have had a much easier journey through uni.

Sorry OP - are her predictions 2 x A stars and an A? Or three A stars?

The majority actually at Cambridge achieve three A stars (I think it's about 65% for humanities / social sciences and over 75% for STEM courses). So the stated minimum grade requirement of A star A A can be a little misleading, I think.

Oxford or Cambridge are only one line on the form. She can try. The silver lining if she is rejected is that she will have experience of having aimed high. The interview and the process will be good experience when she comes to apply for jobs.

Oxbridge colleges can be very generous. A property developer friend was taking a few years off during a property downturn and working as a part time postman, whilst living off capital. They filled in the forms accurately with his very low income, and his daughter was surprised to find that the college was aware she was getting a full loan and went out of their way to provide further financial support. The college was very keen to have people from lower income families and were determined that money would not be an issue. (Post graduation she continues to be involved with the college, especially in their efforts to encourage people from lower income backgrounds to apply.)

(The same applies to some London universities. Apply, be offered a place and then start asking about bursaries. UCL and Imperial tend to be the most generous. London has longer terms and more part time job opportunities but is expensive.)

The standard Oxford offer is 3As. three A*s is far less usual in humanities than it is in science.

@anouskita it's two A stars and one A

Thanks all, it really did feel like these were totally unobtainable but the LNET appears straight forward but the timing is critical

The rest should be treated as, give it a go and see what happens.

Financially we wouldn't be entitled to support as I earn too much, but I can go from working 4 days to 5 days to cover the accomodation costs.
I always knew she was clever, but she's only just started believing in herself and I'm determined to ensure I can help her go as far as she wants
Thank you all for the advice and comments so far

I went to Durham. I worked several jobs over the 3 years including the students union, showing prospective students round, a local club and in the summers for the open university that used the college for summer schools.
Most of the colleges are catered and students live in for the first year.
Law when I was at Durham was quite black letter which I didn't realise and I took the more social law subjects. It's worth looking at what modules they offer. She'll have to do the core subjects for a quilting law degree.
Durham is a small place that's easy to get around on foot. Leeds (also lived there) is a much bigger city.
Have a think about the grades they give, Durham have a reputation for harsher marking for example but the the college system is very supportive and it's looked on well by employers. Some employers though now do blind applications and you can't mention which uni you went to on applications.

Maybe buy some books to help prepare for the entrance test?

DC1 (Oxbridge) and DC3 ( Durham) haven’t worked in term time but always found work in the very long summer vacations and sometimes the other breaks too.

I have a similar query with Year 12 son with good predictions. Having started visiting universities and hearing how competitive some courses are to get a place I am not sure whether to encourage him to try for all high ranking courses (hoping that he gets an offer from at least one of them) or to try and spread the risk a bit? I don't want to put him off aiming high but I am naturally quite cautious! Have you had thoughts about this?

I'm in the minority here, but OP I come from a working class background and went to an elitist RG London uni. Absolutely HATED it for three years. I moved home as I had nothing in common with anybody in halls. Most events were things like balls and dances, neither of which I knew how to dress for, or even how to act at!

Not saying your DD's experience will be the same as my (miserable) one, but please do consider the student demographics as part of this too. Make sure she will be around people she has things in common with, and the uni run events she'd like to go to.

How along ago was this? Both my DC spent time at good London Universities, and neither ever went to a ball. I am not sure there were any. It also sounds odd that class was an issue. The main complaint about London Universities is that the student body is international. Students willing to mix beyond racial and cultural divides usually won’t care much about class. Being bright, hard working and interested in your subject is usually sufficient common ground.

Oxbridge has done a huge amount of work to diversify its intake in recent years. If the OPs DC wants to go for it they should. With their whole lives ahead of them they should not limit their ambition by a sense of ‘not for the likes of us’.

@cocunut

How long ago? When I went (30 years ago) there were occasional balls but no dances, that sounds like a very long time ago. My DD's are at university/recently graduated and balls are certainly not common, in fact they drink a lot less then we did! Nightclubs, bands etc not formal dancing

I am watching this with interest. I have one dc at a good RG Uni and my other dc is now considering Oxford. I’m not sure he’ll like it there to be honest. I don’t even know if his GCSEs are good enough. Can anyone advise on the lowest threshold for a not massively popular course at Oxford? He has mostly 8/7 with a couple of 6s (borderline SpLD).

DD didn’t do loads of prep for her Oxbridge application unless you count the essay competition she entered spring of Y12. She did some research, had a few support sessions at school but felt her own research informed her more. As most colleges hire out during holidays to conferences and functions you usually only pay for accommodation for 30 weeks of the year.

On her offer holder day it didn’t feel at all elitist. She is keen however to experience what she can and is working part of the summer to have ‘fun money’.

Most from her state grammar school who applied had predictions of all A stars.

The UCAS website has a lot of information for parents and students.

@HessianBlanket which sorts of courses is he going for? I've been freaked out by the extremely high offers DS2 had for engineering (his lowest offer was ÅAA...) but at the same time, maths-based A Levels are (he assures me) more predictable, and if you're working at that level you should be fine in the exams, so an insurance choice that's only one grade down isn't as risky as it feels. (Ask me again on A level results day whether this turned out to be true...)

But I think teachers will tell you that anything more than two grades down on your predictions is an unusual gap. (Although this is complicated by some schools being deliberately optimistic on predicted grades...)

Can anyone advise on the lowest threshold for a not massively popular course at Oxford?

If it’s classics or languages, and he’s predicted excellent grades in something relevant at A level, it’s worth a shot. How would he feel about being towards the lower end of his cohort, though? The pace tend to be relentless.

@LaDeeDa123 my DS1 got into Oxford with GCSEs of 3x9, 1x8 and 5x7. Crucially, though, that was excellent for his school (his school was crap, frankly and DS1 was the only person in his year to get any 9 grades at all). If your DS is at an ordinary school, lots of 8s and 7s is more than enough to have a go. If he's at a super-high achieving school where lots of people get strings of 8s and 9s it might not look so impressive, although probably still good enough to have a go, especially if there's an entrance exam and he aces it.

Oxford treat 8s and 9s as equivalent, and they compare your GCSE results against the average GCSE score achieved by other pupils in your school in your year.

Oxford terms are quite short so she could easily make enough money working during the holidays. I worked in a pub during term time as well (wouldn't recommend this though!)

The colleges vary a lot so don't get put off by ideas about elitism - my college was one of the less prestigious ones and was very 'normal' feeling with a lot of people from state schools, but friends had very different experiences in some of the older/smaller/better known colleges so you do have to do your research.