Open days - how important are first impressions

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We’re on our way from an open day. DD thought the campus was ok and the course looks amazing on paper but the subject talks were awful - death by PowerPoint and really uninspiring. Just thinking how much weight we should put on this - it’s given us a really bad impression of their teaching but it was only 2 teachers out of a large faculty.

@mondaytosunday put it so well, reflecting why open days did affect DD's decisions: If an institution cannot organise an interesting and informative and well run day for potential students, who are the reason they actually exist, then what does that say about how well they run the university as a whole and how they treat their students? Of course there's other things to take into account, not least the course itself, but it's reasonable to assume an open day reflects their attitudes. Having said that, DD went to offer days at four our of five of those she listed, even though she'd already been to open days at all of them, which was partly to make sure that there was consistency in how they treated students etc. Of course that still might mean they're useless once you start there, but it makes it less likely.

@L3ThirtySeven I don't think anyone is judging it by how "flashy and entertaining an open day" it is, but if the staff appear disinterested or don't listen well to potential students' questions than I'd be surprised if that didn't reflect how they interact with students on their courses. At the uni that DD has put as her first choice, the head of department gave the subject talk (maybe because no one else wanted to!) but he was so engaging and enthusiastic that it suggested he would set the tone for the department as a whole. I don't care how amazing their research is if they can't explain it in a way to engage students.

I'm also interested to know what "the best method for determining if a Uni is right for my DC" is that you speak of? Would you agree that it's consideration of many factors, giving more significance to factors that are relevant to your DC and their personality, interests and future plans? As far as I'm concerned, for example, league tables are of interest, but only when you break down the marks and look at specific departments, eg student satisfaction, student safety, % employed after one year, research.

Liverpool were great for one course ( really enthusiastic about their research and showed the wide range of modules on offer) but were disappointing for another .
Both dds mainly selected on location in the end, and the feel of the place. Had some excellent students show us round at quite a few unis.

Yes, open day is simply one factor out of many. May I direct you to my first post on the thread for more detail.

@L3ThirtySeven oh, OK, you're simply saying "do lots of research, find out from current students". Agree with you on that, and it's what we/DD have done, open days were just one part of the mix. Assuming DD does get the results to get into her first choice, it will certainly be interesting to find out whether the reality matches the impressions we got from the open days and research.

TBH I'd feel arsey about this if I'd booked a place each for me and ds - my ds is autistic and I need to listen to what's going on as I'll be helping him apply to nearby unis.

And that is absolutely as it should be @ejbaxa But other people sometimes behave far less maturely ... those who don't book, or insist that they all (the whole family) be accommodated, to the exclusion of potential applicants.

well if they can't rustle up a few student ambassadors and a few faculty

You know that academic staff don't get paid for the extra days we do? And indeed, it can actually COST us in commuting fares/costs, extra childcare and so on.

Sometimes parental expectations (as some have demonstrated on this thread) are either contradictory, or unreasonable.

If you judge a university only by its Open Day, you are not judging well.

I think they are really important. Both my DC switched the subjects they wanted to study after attending inspirational talks in a different subject area to the one they thought they wanted to study!

Lots of professionals do work which isn't strictly part of their contract or job description @SideWonder, university staff are far from alone in that. The point is, if you receive a dull and inspiring talk from an academic in the department in which you are interested, and that person is disengaged and disinterested, why would a perspective student then think to themselves 'oh I'm sure they won't be like that when they are giving lectures/tutorials'. Some enthusiasm plus the ability to answer questions about the course are a minimum requirement, surely?

As PPs have said, open days are only 1 factor among many to look into, but they are a factor.

Students not wanting to read is a huge problem on English courses now. All the academics I know who teach English Literature are complaining about it.

Yes I can imagine it must be a nightmare. DD took a module in her final year where she had to read Oliver Twist, Tess, Silas Marner, a heap of poetry, Dorian Gray and I can't recall what else. Then another two modules as well with similar loads, all in one term. I imagine that is pretty standard.

She for sure says the students on her course (at Leicester) were more than happy to read tho and in fact relished it, which is great. It was Lincoln btw where nobody wanted to read (apparently).

You know that academic staff don't get paid for the extra days we do? And indeed, it can actually COST us in commuting fares/costs, extra childcare and so on.

what? You mean just like practically every other job which isn’t hourly paid where you have to work the hours that are necessary to get the job done? Heavens? How shocking!

I don’t have an issue with working “extra” for open days as I agree it’s part of the job.

I think the issue for some depts/universities are the fact that the staff are so overworked and frequently working 60 plus hour weeks to get the day to day job done that sometimes they do just think “fuck it” to stuff like this. It’ll be heavily tied into the current marking and assessment boycott and the reasons for that boycott.

So last year in our team of 3 we had one person off on long term sick. Leaving two of us. There was an open day and my colleague had annual leave booked that week and I had an event on on the Saturday. So we didn’t cover the open day. SLT were not overly impressed but what do you do, I’d already done a lot of open days and really had something I did not want to miss. So even though I was asked several times to come i politely expressed my regrets and declined. I do feel sorry for people who traveled and had to talk to someone from a similar dept but a different course as that’s all there was. And if people had taken a message away from the day that the staffing wasn’t great they’d have been correct. Funnily enough we got permission to increase staffing soon after that.

I wouldn’t put much store on sample lectures. It’s dolly for universities to offer them. In reality students will choose modules that interest them, lectures are only one way learning happens, they may never be lectured by that individual, some lecturers lack charisma and an engaging delivery - it’s the same everywhere.

folly

I don’t think that’s always the case re Durham - we had a fantastic experience at Durham with both the open day and offer holders day. I was nervous about the offer holders day as it was a strike but we had several professors and really engaging activities (and free biscuits). The colleges and general stuff were also great.

I don't think people are that stupid to get their heads turned just by one day @SideWonder. No one wants a circus, but people enthusiastic about their chosen profession would be a start. And as for not being paid - whoa you are not getting anywhere with that.
So we are back from one today.
It was at a specialist art school, for the course we are considering, top five judging by the Oscars and BAFTAs won by alumni. So no problem attracting candidates, but of course they want to be able to choose the best, and have the best choose them.
The initial talk was by head of film, he was so passionate about the school, his subject and imparting knowledge and helping students find their voice. He gave concrete examples, and realistic expectations.
Then we had our subject talk. Due to the fact they were running graduate shows she was in an unfamiliar room and had technical difficulties with her slides - which she put together herself. No matter, she asked us questions while waiting for tech support, answer our questions, and in the end when the problem could only partially be resolved, went ahead with enthusiasm anyway. She was giving the same talk and hour later, but said please come ask me anything, now or after the next one.

Our student ambassador graduated this year and we (meaning me and my daughter) were able to speak to her for over 20 minutes about the course - why she chose that uni, what she liked, what she didn't, student life, her plans, and so on. Then for contrast we approached an international student, not an ambassador but there to see the shows, and pick her brain.
There were 'stands' manned by teachers representing each discipline, student union, study abroad etc.
We were impressed. I think the idea of open days is to check out the area, and try and get to know the university in a way that's difficult just by looking at course modules and league tables. Ask questions and get the 'vibe' of the place.
Another one in ten days, we will see how they measure up!

My experience of Durham was the same as yours @KittyMcKitty (albeit for 2022 entry). We could only do a guided tour with an ambassador pre application but the offer holder day including taster lecture was excellent. My friends DS went last Friday for a different humanities subject and he had a really good day too, visiting the department he is interested in, plus a talk on admissions etc, then visits to a number of colleges. it sounded like they had put a lot of effort in.

Sorry for the derail. @GoldenRuby or @KittyMcKitty is there still an active Durham thread? A search hasn't found it?

@EwwSprouts ah, I think the main one looks as if it is full - last post in April. Do you want to make a new one, or shall I? (Will have to learn how to link threads though first!)

@GoldenRuby Thanks for prompt reply. I have no idea how to link but happy to try.

“A bit off” is the perfect description when you know it’s not for you.

we visited Nottingham w DS 2 years ago expecting to love it. Econ/Mgmt was at a different campus which felt dead, windswept & isolated. Spoke with key admissions person and lecturer for Econ who was super arrogant. Lecture itself was dull and like being back at primary school. Really disappointing and proved how important it was to do these visits, despite the time taken and ££ they involve.