Graduating students - Nothing will be marked?

[Askil]

Can anyone clarify what's happening? Are all graduates this yr not going to have their coursework and final dissertations marked? I also heard universities will determine their degree based on current work i.e yr 1 and yr 2?

OR is that there will be a delay in marking these pieces of work and they will get their classifications a bit later than usual?

OR
That will just graduate will no final yr marks?

Also, is a blanket policy across ALL universities?

It’s not faculty or subject dependent it is literally if the dissertation supervisor is on strike- which will vary between staff members.

I think this situation is absolutely disgraceful
The poor students

This is a ‘useful’ flowchart from one university

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cs8V32FM3Ws/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Less than half of academics are unionised. Mostly it's humanities and art's subjects affected - only 2 out of 30 in exh's department are striking

@Iworkformeanies That is quite outrageous! I agree with you, you should at least be paid 60% of your total. How very entitled! Unfortunately and by the look of things I doubt workload management has made the agenda list to discuss.

@Catsrcool69 When you say 'lost post graduate opportunities' are you foreseeing that students might not know their degree classifications by September? I agree with you that perhaps, final yr work should not have been included.

Just got a message (family group chat) he's actually been offered money to mark masters thesis for another university, he's happy to take the money as he needs to give it to me!, he thinks his pay package is good hence no striking, it's far better overall contract wise than I get in the helping people sector (6 weeks holiday for starters) you get paid less for private sector for sure, and his job security is better than private sector.

@Askil the strike mandate lasts till the end of September, but if its not resolved by that time then I expect the union to renew the mandate. And the longer it goes on the less likely it is they will ever bother to mark this year's papers. Afterall, they will be busy with current work. So yes, I see it as entirely possible that those students impacted by this will never get their degrees. Good job it won't have cost them £50k or more in student debt....oh wait...

To be honest, I'm furious. And I would encourage everyone to be pestering their MP and the universities etc to at least get them back to negotiations.

@Catsrcool69 Thought I'd replied to your last post but it didn't seem to load. I can't retype everything but that kind of amounts to fraud if they do not give the students their results yet have collected all the fees. They have basically not fulfilled the terms of their agreement when they made the offers at point of admmission.

@Askil you may well be right, but I'm not sure how the universities would ever be held to account. And in practice, if large numbers of this year's graduates miss out on places on grad schemes etc, and have to reapply after getting delayed grades, they will be competing against next year's cohort, so sheer numbers will make it harder for all. Obviously, we can hope that some employers will honour offers they have made given the circumstances, but who knows?!

This could be an interesting event for parents/students to attend and ask a question or two.
https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/news-blog-and-events/events/insight-event-protecting-students-as-consumers/

There are some class actions heading to the courts where groups of students are attempting to sue the universities. UCU are encouraging students to take action as it’s the only way the universities can be actually damaged by the unions actions ( shows how badly designed the action is ) .

I am coming on to highlight the online event that @Iworkformeanies has linked to, above. It is at 10.00 on June 15 and concerns students’ rights as consumers. Presumably to do with the MAB.

The whole thing is a nightmare. My university is also penalising striking colleagues 100% of pay for what PP rightly characterise as less than half the workload at the worst of times. I took issue with UCU a while back but I admire these colleagues who are highlighting that HE in Britain is broken and paying the price, even as I deeply regret that this year’s graduates are paying the price.

The employers, many of whom are sitting on enormous cash reserves and now regard themselves as businesses, are refusing to come to the table. Students and staff should make it a common cause to get them there. Learning about your student’s rights on June 15 and preparing to exercise them may motivate employers line nothing else.

Thanks for that link @Iworkformeanies .

If only strike action weren't affecting finalists. At this point, it just seems unfair that those who suffer are the students - a cohort who has been through more than their fair share of adversity with the pandemic.

Some of DS1's cohort are now finding their mental health deteriorating further, due to the marking strikes, as they face the waste of three years hard work, loss of possible jobs and postgrad. courses and just the awful sense of powerlessness.

Families of international students will be flying over for what they've been told is a 'Graduation Ceremony' but is in fact a fake mock-up, given students won't have had their exams marked. DS1 and his cohort has been led to believe that there'll just be a 'delay' in the exams and dissertations being marked but the reality seems to be that they may never get marked at all.

@Askil I agree with what you say that, "that kind of amounts to fraud if they do not give the students their results yet have collected all the fees. They have basically not fulfilled the terms of their agreement when they made the offers at point of admission." If you think of all the hoops our DCs have to jump through to get to the point of finals, the lack of a proper degree at the end of this is appalling.

@mutterphore you put it perfectly! I keep hoping the degrees will indeed be marked later, but I don't see how that will happen without a resolution of the dispute. And the longer till that happens, the less likely it seems that they will get marked. Its completely unacceptable to include final year students in this.

I think we have to hope firmly that the degrees will all be marked later rather than never because the latter just doesn't bear thinking about. I never thought i'd see the day higher education in the UK would be operating at such a low level.

I also agree with you. @mutterphore And as nothing else is moving the dispute forward, perhaps your DS or you will take the opportunity to learn on June 15 what his and your rights are.

I believe that if students, particularly final year students, started (threatening to) exercise their rights — at least as I hope they stand: the unis appear to be about to break a contract —- the unis would come to the table. When they do, this dispute can be resolved.

@askil When fees were raised the thinking about HE fundamentally changed. It is now a business. The bottom line is now the financial health of each institution. Staff well being has long taken a back seat. Parents of vulnerable students have been familiar with the cutbacks in counselling many places. The MAB has brought the shift in values into the open.

@poetryandwine Is this forthcoming meeting 15/6 been advertised so that it reaches maximum no of students, do you know? is it on social media? because if not there won't be much of a turn out by the very students who need it most.

'being'

I just wanted to come on here again and try give my perspective working in a uni department. In my department three colleagues are taking part in the MAB. We have received no advice from management about how we should handle this apart from asking other colleagues to mark. In a small department a lot of staff are the only person who can mark that work. We simply do not know what to do. I think the most likely thing is we will pay external academics to mark, or PhD students where it's a broader topic. It's an absolute nightmare all round.

The problem is that no amount of ‘knowing your rights ‘ or legal redress will result in the work being marked. Either they will get some form of financial recompense ( in reality will make no difference as repayments are based on salary not balance owing) or the university will give them the degree anyway which will be the same as when A levels were awarded on teacher grades and will make the students feel pretty worthless .

as I said before I am not unsympathetic to the staff pov but it does bug me that they are only striking on the part of their role that affects students. Why not refuse to participate in TEF/REF and apply for research grants etc . In fact why not take ASOAS which is not going anything except marking and teaching?

@Askil as far as I know, this meeting has not been well advertised yet. I hope that will change but I can’t say. Will this government think to promote it directly to Student Unions? Who can say?

@cyclamenqueen I appreciate your perspective. TEF is a rubber stamping exercise for the most part, so boycotting would be great. But I think UCU members could do this with no discernible effect on outcomes, so it wouldn’t be very effective.

REF is different. Significant boycotting would affect your School’s government funding for years. It would probably jeopardise your job and certainly kill any prospects for promotions or optional pay rises for a long time. That is a very, very high price to pay when you are fighting for basic fair treatment for a cohort who, for the most part, are leaving the dirty work to others. (I am now reluctantly in this passive group because of differences with UCU.)

Refusing en masse to apply for research grants is a fascinating idea. I think it would require a majority of academics to belong to the union to avoid the consequences above. If union membership were much greater, so that individuals could not be punished, at first glance this appears to be both viable and powerful.

This is such a shambles. I can't believe this is being allowed to happen.

I think is unfair to suggest the MAB is as a result of a shift in values. None of us works for free or for half of the total we are due. I know people say teaching is a 'vocation', but it's also a job and the pay ultimately pays for their living. I am close to devasted for my dc who I know has pulled himself up from his bootstraps to go through university. He's done an amazing science project for his final disssertation and this is meant to be his crowing glory. I'm still struggling to believe he might be leaving empty handed or even how to explain it all to him.

I'm also angry for the teachers who have been put in this position. Where is the is The secretary of state for Education, Gillian, or Minister for Universities? why do they wait until students are rioting on the streets before those in power do something? this is like the whole TAGS vCAGS and Gavin Williamson debacle all over again. What an awful nightmare!