Post grad Int'l Dev or Law??

[Jux]

DD's got a place on the Law Conversion Course at Exeter, but is also interested in the International Development Masters.

Is anyone there who can tell me about careers in ID, I know v little and what it's like to work in, how you claw your way up the greasy pole etc? How hard it is to get into and succeed in.

As for Law, I know the course will involve a lot of learning of Case Law (DD's like a sponge that just absorbs facts so would be work but work that comes fairly naturally to her). She'd want to go int Int'l Human Rights Law ultimately. So, as for ID, can anyone tell me more about how hard that is to get into and succeed in?

What sort of salaries are you likely to look at after say 10 years? (That's a q onmy own behalf, I think if she's happy in what she does that's most important).

Any info you can give on either of these career paths would be very welcome.
Thank you.

@PettsWoodParadise I can see that where the employer pays it’s possible but for barristers it’s loss of money as they are self employed. Do city lawyers do pro bono human rights? Seems a stretch.

@TizerorFizz yes - clients expect a certain level of doing good from their advisers as part of their CSR (often because the consumers at the end of the chain expect it) and lawyers have to report in pitches hours of pro bono work etc. I have seen trainees work on everything from Personal Independence Payments applications to major Immigration battles with government plus other major high profile issues with legal charities like the Good Law Project plus death row cases in the US and Middle East. (it is sometimes less political if the London office deals with some jurisdictions if IYSWIM)

It can be a fine line between not doing work that is against the core market of your clients so it has to go through a lot of due diligence but the law firm I most recently worked on had a couple of trainee seats in Pro Bono and Associates could put a large number of pro bono hours towards their targets.

@TizerorFizz I'm a barrister and have been a partner in an international law firm. I've done pro bono work in both roles. A lot of large law firms will let lawyers count something like 50 hours of pro bono work per year towards their billable hours targets as part of the firm's CSR commitment. As another poster said, there might also be secondments to charities, although these will be rare. At the Bar there is a general commitment to pro bono work. Lots of barristers give up their time to help those who cannot afford to pay for legal representation.

Not all pro bono work will be human rights related though.

Wow, Thank you all so, so much! Really interesting replies and helpful. I have directed dd towards this thread, she may even sign up and ask questions here herself. She's so busy right now, what with Finals and her Dissertation etc that you may have to just be satisfied with me.

Thank you all again!

@eurochick DD is a barrister too. She wouldn’t do human rights as she’s not remotely qualified to do it. She’s done some pro bono but in her field. Neither, at a fairly young age, does she pick and choose. That’s where the difficulty arises. To be a human rights barrister you would usually be a tenant in a set doing human rights. That is very difficult to achieve.

I’m not certain it’s a field many city lawyers dabble in either. First, of course, you’ve got the issue of getting a job with them in the first place. So your main interest is usually commercial. (I assume).

In general this is a difficult area to get into regarding law. The solicitor route might be a bit easier in terms of lawyers who routinely do this work. In terms of working for an aid charity, I think that’s much easier. However I also think bringing a skill helps.

@Jux
I think the pro bono discussion is a bit of a red herring. It’s what you might do when established. Your DD needs to get to the starting gate. So she really must decide solicitor or barrister. They are different training routes.

Or work in overseas development. That’s often with a charity. So she needs to investigate how to shape her career as she’s already a bit behind the curve. Doing extra for her cv is now vital and deciding upon career path. There might also be legal departments within charities which could also be an avenue to explore.

I know she doesn't want to be a barrister so she'd go the solicitor route if she does choose law. She would also much rather avoid London altogether if she can; presumably she'd need to find a London based firm with branches elsewhere. I think she's leaning towards ID, tbh.

Can’t really help on ID. If the discussions on this thread have helped DD make a decision, it’s been worth it!

I had my first career in human development - was recruited by the Overseas Development Administration (then Dfid, now FCDO) to their Young Professional Officer Scheme. First time I applied wasn't successful then went and did lots of pro bono p/t internships with development charities while having a cleaning job to pay for food etc then did a masters. Then got lucky.

As others have said it is hard work getting into the sector involving lots of voluntary and unpaid work experience.

I left the sector after realising that working in Overseas Development to a large degree is being a consultant jumping from project to project - too much like White Saviour work for me. Also didn't like the male expat consultants bringing prostitutes back to the Project House when I went to the capital.

29 years later I'm still in touch with the project I as support it via local staff who set up a locally staffed NGO and did my PhD research there in my 30s. So no regrets.

Sadly the FCDO takes fewer than 1% of applicants for Fast Track. According to government stats! They have a high number of applicants. It would be interesting to see the backgrounds of applicants. What are they offering?

Juja that's really interesting, thank you.

TizerorFizz you have been so helpful on this thread. Thank you. DD has now also applied for ID, so we shall see what happens. If they offer her a place, she'll have a choice, which is always good.

@Jux Its a pleasure to have a good conversation on MN.

Good luck to her whatever she chooses. There are lots of lawyers on MN (I am one) so she always ask any questions she likes and quite a few of us have lawyer children too so we are reasonably up to date with the new SQE system of qualifying as a solicitor. There are loads of good firms outside London (if she wants to avoid London). Most city centres like Newcastle where I am from originally, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol have law firms so she should look at the websites ideally of the better paid commercial firms in my view just to start out in law even if she wants to move into human rights type law later. A reasonably large regional firm will let her train in about 4 different legal areas and give her a chance to make up her mind. They do however recruit years ahead so she should start looking o their website this summer once exams are over eg via https://www.lawcareers.net/Solicitors/TrainingContractDeadlines

These are such different paths.
i followed a path very similar to @Juja and now teach ID. It’s a fascinating ever-changing world, rife with ethical problems. An MSc in ID (which? Where? What exactly?) will be a wonderful education, but it doesn’t lead straight to a job.