Offer in principle - any ideas

[DownyEmerald]

Daughter has just received an email from a uni she's booked an open day for, saying that they are piloting offers in principle for the subject she's interested in. 2024 entry.

Any thoughts?

What does that mean? That they’ll guarantee her an offer before she’s even applied? Is there a catch?

It sounds like if they like you they will issue this offer in principle, possibly stating what your formal offer might be, which will encourage an application from the candidate if they want to go there.

I have seen U of Birmingham trial this idea at Open Days for certain subjects. Obviously, your DC may have received a communication from a different uni, but you can use the link below to get U of Birmingham's explanation of their approach.
www.birmingham.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/open-days/offer-in-principle-at-open-day

Sounds like they'll guarantee her an offer if she applies there and meets the minimum academic requirements.

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/open-days/offer-in-principle-at-open-day

Ah ok, thanks both - I haven't seen the actual email yet. Yes it's Uni of Birmingham. She's keen anyway, before we've been, so this will push them right to the top of her list I should think!

I see it's only some courses - did they not fill them last year? Not many deferreds? I've got even more questions now!

It’s a marketing ploy to attract candidates and ensure better candidates apply to them. It reminds me of when unis like Birmingham were making unconditional offers to students with good academics, who firmed them. It was to tempt those who were good, but might be holding out for somewhere better, to choose Birmingham for the certainty.

Mid-range RG unis are always worrying about having enough decent quality applicants and particularly about the best actually firming them. Who knows if these ‘offers in principle’ will be a lower offer or the standard offer.

To me, it sounds a but like desperation in their part, but I think it would appeal to some students. If you have been confirmed that you will get an offer, you might be more likely to put it in your 5 choices. This might especially be the case for students who are good, but not top notch, who would like a bit of certainty amongst their other more aspirational choices. Then, when some of the aspirational choices don’t offer, Birmingham hopes they will be firmed.

I saw this trial in action on an Open Day last autumn at U of Birmingham, though in the Chemistry Dept and for 2023 entry; as Chemistry does not feature on the list for 2024 entry, it suggests it is something that individual departments try out and run with or not according to experience.

I think an interesting feature is that it is only available to those who book to attend an Open Day and you get a brief 1-2-1 meeting with an academic in the department, presumably responsible for admissions (at the Chem Open Day it was in a separate, slightly more private area and appeared to be choreographed well).

At the very least, it gives an opportunity for prospective students to have an in depth discussion based on their GCSE results, current A level performance and aspirations in terms of uni study in the particular subject area.

I would imagine for staff it is extra work at an Open Day but perhaps also an opportunity to get an up-to-date 'window' into what potential applicants are thinking about as they journey through the UCAS process.

At Open Days my DC say they have always found staff approachable and informative but that sometimes conversations are a bit high level and that is understandable if academics don't want to probe unduly and potential applicants are hesitant to engage. The 1-2-1 idea helps set the expectation of a tailored conversation on both sides.

So, OP, if your DD is thinking about U of Birmingham, it is definitely worth booking a session on the Open Day; my view is more info often helps make for a more informed decision.

Glasgow vet school was doing this in the early 90s if attended an open day and had a trial interview they indicated if they would be likely to make you an offer.
I had an offer in principal, this then firmed to an UCCA offer as it was in those days.

Thank you all, useful info. This makes the open day prep a bit more focused! But that's no bad thing

I'm sure you didn't mean to wombat but calling Birmingham a 'mid tier Russell Group' sounds rather sniffy!

DS is at Birmingham with his two A stars and an A He swapped courses but had he applied direct for history (one of the subjects listed) it would almost ceratinly have been number one choice, perhaps alongside York.

Birmingham is comfortably a top 10 university for history.

What it is is a uni with a very very canny marketing department - pushy in fact.

The offers in principle aren't actually new - they did them before Covid and then dropped them (TAGs etc) but during Covid they also had some interesting marketing strategies.

Looking at the list , I suspect Birmingham is doing this for two reasons:

1. As alluded to by wombat , Birmingham may not have the glamour of eg Exeter , York, Bristol. It remains a popular university though. Rare to see it in clearing.
2. More significantly , some of the subjects on there are suffering a national drop off in applicants and they are keen to snaffle the good ones : this would be history and English Literature. Conversely the rise in STEM is probably making them want to snare some biochemists wo are havering between Birmingham ,Nottingham et al.

DS liked everything about Birmingham when he applied. Ironically the only thing which nearly put him off it was its slightly aggressive marketing!

I think OP if your DD likes Birmingham she ought to bite their hands off!

Oh, just noticed MFL is also on the list. Any sensible uni will try and protect itself against having to close its MFL department and will want to attract good candidates. If my DCs were looking ta MFL thta would draw my attention.

Not a new thing
cambridge did it in the 80s

Sorry if what I said sounded ‘sniffy’.

I didn’t intend to be making a negative judgement about Birmingham at all - the standard offer for Birmingham for History looks to be AAB and with an EPQ that can be reduced to AAB. Others require higher - Durham has a standard offer of A star AA and others like York, Warwick and Exeter have AAA, with some of these not lowering for EPQ either. I know these grades don’t necessarily reflect the student bodies on the course itself or which might let students in who don’t hit their offer or how many are there with grads well in excess…but they give an indication of how competitive those courses are.
I know there will be students in all of the RG unis who have 3 top grades of A star. Some though, for some courses gave so many, they are rejecting some even with great personal statements on top. Others, perhaps have a wider range of applicants and can’t fill all their places with top performers.

Yes, I guess it’s as you say, that especially on courses which aren’t seeing so many applicants generally, Birmingham (amongst others) wants to attract applicants in a reducing pool and especially to attract the better applicants. Every marketing strategy they can employ that draws people to them,they see as positive.

Perhaps the offer in principle might make some who were wavering about attending the Birmingham Open Day actually attend. They probably know that if people have attended an Open Day, they are more likely to apply and more likely to Firm or Insurance too. Getting people toBirmingham to see it, probably counts for a lot.

Overall most people will visit a handful of places in person and have be selective about where they go. It’s much easier to imagine yourself somewhere you’ve visited, so getting visitors to Open Days is really important.

I think it's all complex. There are a range of reasons why Durham remains popular and not all are about its quality...

Discover Uni , btw, suggests Birmingham students have very similar grade profiles to those at York.

The problem Durham surely must have is that its offer is equal to Cambridge and above Oxford. Lots of students, my DS included, don't consider it because they would never have been able to put it as insurance. Durham's strategy seems high risk to me!

Off thread, but I think keen historians are more likely than applicants to other degrees to peruse modules and specialisms of the university in question.

I don't see Durham's strategy as high risk @Piggywaspushed - they're always able to fill their courses (very rarely have places in clearing) and there are plenty of non Oxbridge rejects who go there as their first choice.

I love this idea of Offer in Principle though - I'd have been encouraging my DS to seriously consider Birmingham if it had been available last year for A&F. It's a great university in a lovely area, with so many places nearby to visit

Yes, it does seem to work for Durham, admittedly!

Oh poor little Seryozha, so keen to glory in his diffident dad's medal and so motherless. I liked the shift in focus, must say.

Ermmm, so that was the wrong thread....

Hi! I’m not a mum but stumbled across your post when looking for answers for the same question. Ive just booked my interview for the offer-in-principle and was wondering if you’ve received any more information? My situation is that my school has predicted me lower grades than i need for a regular application (ABB) rather than (AAB or AAA) and i really want to go to UBirmingham. So if your child has already had her interview or she has hers before mine (23-6-23) let me know how it goes! Have a nice weekend :)

@Leilaremak DD is booked into 23rd as well. And is a bit nervous about it as she's not great at asking questions! Just about managed to come up with something at SOAS last weekend 😅
Hope your interview goes well

DD applied for an offer in principle at Birmingham for 2023 entry and was given one after a very short chat with an admissions tutor. Oddly then after she applied she had an email from them saying she was put on hold (despite 3 x A* predictions. We emailed back and said she had the offer in principle and immediately the offer came through. In the end she hasn’t chosen Birmingham (she is one of non Oxbridge people who chose to firm Durham referred to above).

Has anyone been for one of these chats at the current round of open days? Just wondered how it works…do they give you something in writing or email you to say you’ve got the offer in principle?

Thanks

DD had her chat at open day on Friday. Her predicteds are above their normal offer. Lecturer said he would recommend her for an offer and that she would get an email.

I think it's just a way of trying to increase applications - they are making an applicant feel wanted and special without any risk to the university, because they would have made them an offer anyway.

We went to Birmingham on Friday and at one talk someone asked if the small dept made the courses super competitive and offers hard to come by. The head of dept said that if you apply and your predicted grades meet the standard entry requirement, you will get an offer. Similar at another talk in a different dept, course lead emphasised that there was no cap on numbers.

Birmingham is an excellent university but in a constant scrap with the others in that second tier (eg York, Nottingham, Bristol, Exeter, Durham, Warwick, Manchester, Leeds, Southampton, Bath etc etc) to attract good applicants.

Anyone who has seen what's going on at UEA will know exactly why Birmingham engages in aggressive marketing strategies.

I would also say that once prospective students visit Birmingham, they set their hearts on it so that coupled with an excellent offer is a useful carrot!