Art and Design at university; for past, present, and future students and parents

[PhotoDad]

I've been on a wonderful thread about applications for art/design applications for the coming academic year, and I thought it might be useful to have a more general place for people at different stages of the process to share advice and hints. The normal MN advice about universities is often not applicable to these subjects!

I'll keep this short because I personally don't like huge posts that appear at the top of each page, but I'll add some starting thoughts below. I know that there's a huge range of experience here and a lot of support, so please do ask questions, or share triumphs and disasters.

The original thread is here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/4626697-2023-uni-applications-for-those-pursuing-art-and-creative-routes

Also, if it’s a physical portfolio for an interview, as far as possible keep it landscape or portrait. When I go through I portfolio I’ll transfer pages across, so first I’ll see the first sheet, then the first and second facing each other and so on. There may, with good reason, be changes of pace but ideally with an overall coherence if that makes sense.

@artant thanks, that's helpful. I will pass it on.

Thanks for joining the thread artant. Will you be able to tell us where you taught? Were you in London? DD is wavering and thinks that CSM FAD is too scary.

@ArtGarfield Not in London, no. Don’t want to completely out myself by saying which campus but UCA.

I think CSM FAD isn’t as scary as it might seem from the outside. The actual pathway groups are quite focused (and tie closely to the CSM undergraduate courses) and not that big which is good for people who know which way they want to go but arguably limits the diagnostic aspect a bit. There are some great tutors (I’ve taught with a few of them). I’m assuming it’s still all at the Archway campus which is a good space.

“I'm slightly confused about the difference between the two levels - I thought level 3 was a two year course for 16-18 year olds - though that may be the Extended Diploma, and I've seen it for 'over 19 year olds only' too, and some say their FAD is a UAL level 3 & 4. I know Kingston's is a Pearson BTEC qualification.”

I missed this earlier @mondaytosunday

The UALab FAD can be at Level 3 or 4 (not sure about ABC or Pearson; the latter was L3 when I taught it but that was before UAL set up its awarding body so quite a few years ago).

As far as I remember, all students do Part 1 at L3 and Part 3 at L4; Part 2 is offered at L3 and L4 and that determines what level the overall qualification is at. Level 3 qualifications carry UCAS tariff points which can make a big difference for students with, say, one A level.

In the days of the education maintenance allowance, students needed to be on a L3 qualification to get EMA which was an incentive to stay at L3.

I couldn’t remember whether there were fee issues for level 4.

That's very useful advice, @artant, thank you so much! I do think that the overall size of the course (or the pathway) is something that DC should consider, in terms of how much contact they'll have with tutors. This is something where open days can be really helpful; it's surprisingly hard to find that information online! (My tip is to look at discoveruni.gov.uk which does allow you to puzzle out cohort sizes; it says "based on data from X students, which was Y% of the cohort" or something similar.)

Thanks so much @artant .

She was fine about trying for CSM until various people (not school thankfully) said how difficult it was to get in. I’ve wondered about how the various pathways allow for a real breadth but it is what it is. The London FDA are what’s available to her.

The CSM courses finishes at Archway next September. Then all the UAL FE courses will have moved to their Lime Grove building.

and of course, no outing! Thank you for all your help and insight.
.

The Lime Grove building used to be London College of Fashion. It’s a beautiful building (I covered a few days teaching there for a friend years ago) and could work really well but it’ll be interesting to see whether the different FAD courses retain their identities or get merged (the Camberwell FAD is a merger of the courses from Camberwell, Chelsea and Wimbledon but CSM has tended to be a bigger course and has the specialist subject area entry routes as well as the wider diagnostic intake).

@Okisenough I can only speak of our experience in London.
My daughter applied to three FAD courses - Morley, UAL Camberwell and Kingston. But we also looked at Ravensbourne and one other I can't remember the name of.
All but Morley the portfolios were submitted online with no interview. And you could submit digitally for Morley too, though they did want an in person interview and you could bring along pieces.
This is mainly due to the sheer numbers (2000 applicants to Kingston, imagine near that for UAL) and the high (50%) amount of international students. Morley is much much smaller.
The portfolio requirements were very specific, as well as how they wanted them submitted (UAL uses Pebblepad for example). So X amount of observational drawings, Y amount of progress, usually 4 or 5 finished pieces. About 25-30 slides in total. Could put more than one image on a slide. The oft repeated 'you on the page'. And agree with @artant they do not want the obvious school assignments, but inevitably as it will be mostly A level work it will be to an extent.
No sketchbooks but pages from it to show the progression from idea to final pieces. They want to see variety and experiments in media and styles, no fanart or copied pieces, though can do in the 'style of'. 3D pieces always welcome as not usual though must be photographed well. Don't forget backgrounds! My daughter designed and illustrated her school magazine from scratch so that was her extra thing, so something done outside of the classroom.
Kingston was the most frustrating application, also the earliest deadline. UAL the best, though do not underestimate the time it takes to photograph and format the artwork - do not leave it last minute!!
She got offers from UAL Camberwell (look online for the difference between Camberwell and CSM, the latter being the fashion one) snd Morley. The wait for UAL offer was MONTHS, comjng late May and well after the deadline for accepting at Morley.
She would have chosen Kingston without a doubt, even though she did do the Foundation prep course over October half term and thought it was juvenile and not worth the money or time, unfortunately she did not get an offer.
We were not impressed by UAL, but one cannot deny their reputation or the amount of well known alumni. My daughter's interest is Animation, and their room for that was barely larger than a box room and was part photo studio. I didn't like the fact that Foundation students could not go to the building (and use equipment) of the degree students (I believe they could use the library). And the Foundation show was not all that. Plus sheer size - 350 students! Plus I know a few who have done CSM Foundation- one hated it so much, after being thrilled to be accepted, she left fashion altogether. She said it was like doing her GCSE art course all over. Cramped and uninterested teachers. But we did meet a lovely girl at the open day at Camberwell who switched her interest during her course and seemed happy there, happy enough to stay on, as most students do for a UAL degree as if you pass you are guaranteed a place.
The acceptance rate at UAL overall is around 20%, but CSM is harder to get into due to higher applications numbers (it's the Holy Grail for fashion for many). Kingston is under 10%. No idea about Morley as do not know how many apply.
Daughter chose Morley in the end as the equipment looked good, a course leader gave the talk on the open day (the PR woman did it for UAL), and they are undergoing a £3m refurbishment this summer even though the building already looked pretty modern (it took over the old Kensington and Chelsea College art premises when they merged). Plus easier to get to as closer than her current school (tube as opposed to longer tube and bus). And the smaller size - my daughter is an introvert so could see her getting lost in a huge cohort, the negative being if she's the only animator not having anyone to work with.
Ok long ramble and it's so personal - your child might love aspects mine did not. But the individual websites all have very good portfolio guidance (though ignore the Kingston accompanying video as over five years old and not very relevant as is a physical one).
Oh I believe my daughter said a couple classmates applied to City and Guilds and did have in person interviews (but I wouldn't pay a fee for FAD, though do know someone who went during covid and actually really enjoyed it when they actually got in the classroom! She's doing fashion degree at CSM now).

That's an amazing account of your DD's journey so far, @mondaytosunday, thank you! I am always willing to bang the drum both for Illustration and for ARU/Cambridge School of Art, although my own DD went for direct entry, so happy to answer any questions about that route.

I don't think I've shared this link before, but there are some excellent talks for any DC (or parents) who are starting research into courses.

https://www.newdesigners.com/nd-futures/

@artant the UAL Camberwell FAD is not moving to the Lime building.

I suspect the fashion part of the CSM FAD is much less friendly than the Fine Art area. Having a PR person doing an open day presentation is a bad sign though!

The digital portfolio requirements are always a nightmare. Even when still wanting physical portfolios for interview a lot of places preselected from digital and each place has its own way of doing it. A basic requirement of, say, a PowerPoint or pdf slideshow with a minimum and maximum number of slides would be much better and not take the applicant away from their current course in the same way.

For undergraduate applications, the Ruskin at Oxford used to ask for a physical portfolio for the selection process. They hung into that until the interview, for which you needed to take another portfolio. Two A1 portfolios of work (one in November, the other December). That’s a huge ask for someone on FAD! (And as a FAD tutor, writing references for the October deadline is more than a little tricky!)

I think a former student of mine teaches Fine Art at Morley to degree level (he may be the course leader). He’s definitely someone who brings positive energy and commitment to his teaching and wants the best for his students.

@mondaytosunday so Camberwell is staying out; that’s interesting. Running two FADs at one site and keeping their separate identities would be a hard thing to get right, so it makes sense.

Staying put, not staying out. It fit the first time I am cursing mumsnet’s lack of an edit facility!

@mondaytosunday when you talk about your daughter, you could be talking about mine!

@artant Although my dd is planning on doing a foundation after her A-Levels, she will also apply for a deferred degree place because she thinks she will definitely be doing Animation and her top choice at the moment is UCA Farnham! She loved the intimate feel of it and the sense it was a nice place for creatives!

That’s interesting. If it’s not moving is it closing? Hmm, I hadn’t thought of that. I did wonder how UAL would run two FAD from the same location. Lime Grove will have all UALs FE courses.

I can see the value of FAD and I think it may be great for DD but I am wondering how much longer it will survive.

@Okisenough The UCA Farnham course is very good (or was, when I was properly up with such matters; obviously things change over time but that’s always been a strong course).

@ArtGarfield “I can see the value of FAD and I think it may be great for DD but I am wondering how much longer it will survive.” This is something everyone in art education has been wondering for as long as I can remember! It’s something of an anomaly as a qualification but it can be so transformative (sometimes even for those doing it as a gap year before going on to an academic degree).

@ArtGarfield no absolutely not. I can't see how they'd fit all those students in one place anyway as the equipment would have to be there too. Camberwell has it's own dedicated building. When I heard about the Lime thing I though whoa - as one if the reasons against UAL was lack of equipment but if they were moving to a newly renovated building... but alas it's not them.
@Okisenough the interesting contrast between UCA (which I really liked) and the course at AUB seems to be that at UCA you produce your own short animation films, where the guy at AUB was at pains to say the films are all collaborative to mimic an actual studio setting. They work in teams of 6-8 and the final year they all pitch they'd ideas but only a few get selected to be made. I wish they both did both, as I can see how collaboration is great but my daughter was like how do you put that on your showreel if you did the storyboard and sound (for example). I also liked that UCA was close to London for coming home at weekends (or me going down there for lunch). We will see how she feels about the long trek to Falmouth next week.
I might have mentioned it before but if you look at the opening title sequence for the latest Bridgerton series it was done by AKA Studios - the two directors (founders?) are UCA graduates.

UAL Camberwell FAD will be moving to Lime Grove from September 2024. I emailed them because I was confused about its future location and received this reply.
Hope that helps anyone else looking at 2024 entry, as my DD is...

Incidentally, the article linked into/mentioned in that reply is this

www.arts.ac.uk/students/stories/new-single-site-for-pre-degree-studies-at-lime-grove

😮

I saw the all pre-degree at Line Grove earlier and thought I might message a friend to ask; hadn’t got round to it yet (I’ve been defrosting my supposedly frost free fridge this afternoon - exciting times!) but that confirms it. No idea how it’ll work!

FE students will have fun dodging the druggies and dealers on Lime Grove. Big topic of conversation in Shepherds Bush right now.

Ah @Itslookinglikeabeautifulday that's interesting! Too late for my daughter -I only asked them about this coming year but they didn't tell me they would for 2024!

Thank you! Yes, DD is interested in 2024 entry to FAD.

We live in London so DD is used to seeing “druggies “. I can’t imagine Lime Grove can be any worse than Archway.

Can’t you?