Mechanical engineering - advice please!

[Kittikat1]

DS is in year 11, about to sit GCSEs. Predicted all 9s, chosen to do maths, further maths, physics and chemistry for A levels. He’s always been very practical minded and has wanted to do engineering since Year8/9.
We have no idea what the best option for him would be (non-engineering family). Should he:

• try for Oxbridge. He has the potential to get the grades I think, but the courses seem more theoretical and less hands on. Plus I’m not sure whether the teaching style and environment will suit him
• do an MEng that has a year in industry/placement to give him real life experience that increase employability. Which unis should he look at? I’ve heard that Southampton, Bath and Manchester are good for engineering
• Or do a degree apprenticeship. Financial benefits are obvious with guaranteed job, however the courses offered seem very narrow, and he may be limited on options if he chose to stay at home and do one

Is there anything else to consider?
All advice gratefully received!
Thanks!

My husband is a senior manager in this field.

He’s found his colleagues who have come up through the apprenticeship route often have an inferiority complex to those who did a degree.

He did a year in industry and found it to be invaluable. He had to manage a team in a steel works and this taught him a lot about leadership and working with a wide range of people.

He doesn’t believe it matters where the degree is as long as it’s accredited by the institute of mechanical engineers

OP is talking about a degree apprenticeship though, you still have a degree.

Anyway OP I'm also interested in your question. My DS is similar but only in year 10.

Yes, the ones my DH works with also obtained a degree but the majority still have an inferiority complex

I have chicken pox so am sat in the sofa feeling dreadful. To ensure I’m clear although the apprentices hes worked with have obtain a degree and are in senior management positions too, so they are all on £85k + with the addition of bonuses, the majority have an inferiority complex compared to those who did a full time degree. It did take them longer to climb the ranks compared to those who started their employment on graduate schemes so that will play into it too

My DS is doing engineering at Cambridge and it is brutal. The students have been told that they should be doing 70 hours of work a week. And they are. There’s no time for fun, and huge amounts of stress. DS is dyslexic and has had other struggles, so I’m sure there must be some who find it easier than him, but I wish he went elsewhere, sad to say.

@Kittikat1
My DH is the founder of an engineering consultancy. They are civil, structural and environmental engineers. I’ve been with DH all the way and he’s nearing retirement now!

Oxbridge is not the be all and end all in Engineering. They have many grads who go into finance roles in the city of London and elsewhere. Of course some grads will become engineers but they only offer general engineering. There are other courses that might well appeal more. Imperial is really sought after for engineers but doesn’t suit everyone.

Therefore, he initially must decide if general engineering is for him. Or should he explore a number of engineering avenues? What about Civil and structural engineering? Environmental engineering? Chemical engineering? Aeronautical engineering? Automotive Engineering? So many to look at. Have a look at the various institutions and discover what they do. Are there taster sessions for 6th formers? Look at the web sites of companies and consultancies to get a flavour of the work. There really is a wide variety.

I do not necessarily believe apprenticeships are the way forward for MEng candidates. Some apprenticeships are good. However which ones actually offer MEng? Very few I think. Most are BEng. Yes, you have a job but the route to qualification is slower. MEng is the best option because it is a faster route to becoming a Chartered Engineer and earning more. I don’t necessarily believe a year in industry works for everyone either. Plus they are competitive. Students apply for them. Not necessary at all for getting a job but can be useful if you pick the right company and are successful. However there are very many other jobs out there after graduation that might be just as good.

Its vital to look at a variety of universities. There are powerhouses of engineering with a great choice of courses. Sheffield should be on any list. Add in Bristol, Bath, Southampton, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle, Birmingham, Surrey, Liverpool and Nottingham and you have plenty to consider. UCL too but depends if you want London or not. There are many other very good options but depends where you want to be in the country.

DS took those A-levels and graduated in mech eng last year. He decided not to apply to Oxbridge, as he's not ambitious, so he felt it wasn't for him. He also thought it seemed like a lot of extra effort, when he probably wouldn't get in!

Before applying to university, he looked for a degree apprenticeship in mech eng, and there were almost none. He applied for the only one he found (Dyson), and the competition was intense. There may be more opportunities now, five or six years later.

Lots of students who do a placement get offered a job with that firm, which is great, if you want to work for them. DS was furloughed for much of his placement (covid), and then the place closed down, so he didn't have that opportunity. However, when he graduated, he was still in great demand, and I think his placement helped and gave him confidence.

Re liking practical things, I don't know much about mechanical engineering, but it seems to me that everything is done on the computer, and it's people without degrees who get to do more of the hands-on stuff. But I'm probably totally wrong.

Warwick does an MEng with the option of an intercalated year in industry.

They also do degree apprenticeships.

My DD is about to start her degree in electrical and mechanical engineering in September. She considered Cambridge but was put off by the theoretical nature of the course and the fact that it seemed mostly programming. We are in Scotland and it was also a huge distance away. School has really pushed the graduate apprenticeship route, and I see why, but she didn’t want to limit herself to one employer after she graduates. I don’t know what the agreement is, but there will be a certain time they need to work for that employer. It also limits your choice of elective subjects as you have to learn what your employer needs you to know.
She had 5 unconditional offers and chose Strathclyde University because of the industry links and it just felt like a happier place when we went to the open day.
She decided on electrical and mechanical because she’s not sure where she want to go with it and that course straddles two faculties so keeps her options open until she know more.
With engineering, you are pretty much guaranteed a job as there is a real shortage so he should do whatever is the best fit for him.

My dd did mechanical engineering at one of the unis @TizerorFizz mentions and now has a graduate job. She didn't want to apply to Oxbridge because she wanted to do mechanical rather than general engineering. As it turned out she didn't get the grades, so just as well.

Her course was very theoretical and mathsy. She has a graduate job now and it's not what I would call hands on either. It more like she/her team design stuff and then manage the contractors who build the designs.

@LozengeShaped
There is a huge misunderstanding about Oxbridge for engineering. It’s totally unnecessary to go there if you want to be an engineer. My DH was very ambitious and so were quite a few of his friends. Sheffield is brilliant for engineering. Any MEng grad can do very well if they can apt what they have learnt to solve problems. (Although back in the day no one offered MEng 4 year courses! )

The rather sad fact is that multi tasking is being drummed out of engineers at university. Sadly the real world is not purely maths or programming a computer! Engineers need to understand the problem. Then engineer a solution. Not understanding how to arrive at possible solutions is a big issue. In real life, the problems are complex and often need greater skills than acquired at university which are too mathsy.

Consultancies definitely need broader skills. Getting on with clients. Solving problems in a cost effective way. Anyone who just wants to sit at a computer all their working life will earn well but not progress as far as others. I think DH would say having an enquiring mind about engineering solutions really helps. Just doing the maths is not the full job. Unfortunately lots of grads think it is.

I suggest he should spend some time researching engineering disciplines, go to Big Bang Fair, take part in any schemes at school, so he can make a more informed choice of degrees. If he can at least narrow to one of Civil, Chemical, Electrical/Electronic or Mechanical engineering then it brings some focus to looking at university. Personally I don't think Oxbridge is that great for engineers who know more or less what discipline they want. Imperial College is excellent but there are many other good engineering courses and many universities have niche specialisations. Most courses that start out with say Mechanical Engineering will have opportunity to specialise in the 2nd part of the course. MEng degrees with our without a year in industry are absolutely standard.

With a degree apprenticeship you need to decide exactly where you want to work/what you want to do on day 1. And then are stuck with it.

There are some extremely bright apprentices coming through now, it's becoming a much more respected route rather than only for people who cant' get grades for uni. It's still a slower progression than normal-degree graduates, at least to start with.

Any engineer with a good degree and work ethic is employable, don't worry about that!

Engineers need to understand the problem. Then engineer a solution.

Very true. The problem solving is what my dd loves about her work. She is always learning.

Your son has a while before decisions have to be made. Perhaps spend time visiting the universities for open days in the autumn and get a feel for the places. Research the courses and see which have modules he likes or that offer placement years etc.
my son wants to study mech eng and do a placement year so he has chosen Bath because he loved the course, loved the campus and loved the fact that most students do the placement so he would still have friends around when he returns to uni for his final year.
my son did not like the look of the Oxford and Cambridge courses as quite traditional and few do the placements . He chose not to apply and made choices based on his preferences for the courses and unis . We did a lot of open days early on which helped him work out what his preferences were.

TizerorFizz Yes, I wasn't suggesting you weren't ambitious if you didn't apply to Oxbridge, but that if you aren't ambitious, you won't bother applying, iyswim. All universities have ambitious people.

I have 2 DS both engineering graduates, DS2 studied MEng Mech and Manufacturing engineering at Warwick with year in industry.
Now spends a lot of time on restricted airfields, project managing adaptions on defence equipment. It’s a great mix of theoretical, computing, managing a team and resources but also getting out on site and seeing the results, and dealing with the real time changes that are needed.

Thank you for all the advice so far. DS is favouring automotive engineering right now. He also wanted to do computer science A level but 5 A levels can’t be done at his school (and workload would be immense, I guess). Very into CAD, uses one of the well known CAD packages to design stuff. So I think he is doing the right things. I think to keep options open, to go for a degree course which starts as general, with options to narrow down to automotive etc, MEng, placement if possible.

He is going to do his own course research, and we will do open days too, doing them early will help as mentioned.

@Kittikat1
Warwick has always been good for automotive. JLR always sent employees there and the university offer opportunities to spend time in industry. The only issue with general engineering is whether you end up going into finance as the grads are not really wedded to engineering. Often at least the first year of courses is shared anyway and changes are possible.