Engineering PS

[Bickleymumma]

My son wants to apply for Mechanical Engineering courses for 2024 entry. He’s thinking of applying for the likes of Bath, Bristol, Exeter, Sheffield, Loughborough etc. He’s doing work experience at a London architects shortly. He’s worried these courses are so competitive that grades and generic extra curricular/WE aren’t enough. What advice do you have for boosting his PS for an engineering course and what else can he do between now and application deadline to make him stand out?
Thank you.

DS had a change of plan and didn't rally gave any experience of engineering. He had to go with experience he already had so used things like cricket as demonstration of working in a team.

DS did an engineering related EPQ which gave him something to talk about in his PS.
Not sure whether PS's are read at all unis, I can't remember off the top of my head as it was 3 years ago.
Decent grades are a must for the MEng course, but another option is to do a BEng and get a good grade average so you can transfer onto the MEng at some point.

My DD did engineering at Cambridge, she had an offer from all 5 of her choices. The main thing probably is high grades esp physics and maths (is your DS doing FM?), but she did also do an 'artefact' EPQ (designing and building a robot). Her PS was essentially a description of how she'd become increasingly interested in engineering from yr 9 electronics onwards. Some of the things were earlier (a smallpeice course, Arkwright award) but in the sixth form she helped run the robotics club for younger pupils - that might be the type of thing your DS could get involved with maybe? She also did a Headstart course (i think they may have changed the name now, not sure)

She had no work experience at all though.

@Bickleymumma
Although DH did civil And Structural engineering, doing projects is useful. He, luckily, went to a school which took engineering seriously. They did school projects for Engineering A level! (Linear motor monorail in the school grounds) and went in for engineering competitions. They offered an architecture short course and took pupils to engineering lectures at the local university. DH was also a fixer. Motorbike. Dad’s car. Lawnmower! Just made things work again. Airfix!

Try and find a mechanical engineering consultancy and ask for work experience. Look at any talks on line. Read about projects. See if the Institute of Mechanical Engineers has an open day. See what they recommend for students.

More recently, I’ve know applicants show an interest in the subject but not do work experience. MEng is the best course but he is looking at top universities. There are others! I don’t think they are all judging on the PS though. Look closely at what they actually say. Is he doing FM? This helps.

This is from the IMechE web site of events in Greater London. Each area has events.

Thank you for all your advice and for sharing your experiences. He isn’t doing FM but is doing an EPQ that’s sort of engineering related. He’s predicted A*AA (maths, physics, history) so not sure if he’s aiming too high with his uni shortlist. He’s not the kid who’s been interested in engineering all his life and has not built robots/fixed things etc other than building Lego but feels that it’s a good fit for his A Levels, his skill set and would be an interesting career path. I will definitely get him to look at these online events to help him compete with students who can demonstrate a long term passion for the subject.

If you think he might be aiming to high, he could always call admissions and ask what the average grades were for those accepted to do the course this year.

Has he looked at Nottingham too? My DS much preferred it to Loughborough on the Open Days.

A bit of a spread of 'typical offers' is always wise, of course. So he should include some where the requirements fit his predictions and a couple a tad lower. There are lots of good engineering degrees at various entry tariffs.

Some engineering courses may give a 'free insurance' offer for MEng in which they're admitted to the BEng course if they've not quite met the MEng offer, but afaik they all allow moving between the two depending how the student is doing after the first year. That can be very handy if the preferred 2 unis both have very high MEng requirements. If it's not clear from the website or at open day then your DS could contact admissions (dd had some questions and had some very helpful responses to emails, they are there to help and contact details should be easy for him to find on the course websites).

feels that it’s a good fit for his A Levels, his skill set and would be an interesting career path.

If he can expand a bit on that and his EPQ then he's got quite a lot of a PS right there I'd have thought.They don't all have to have done everything possible! Part of the value (imo) is that writing the PS gets the applicant to think about exactly those things - why they want to do that course, why it would suit them and where it may lead.

FM is not usually a required A level, as not all settings offer it. The skill set is needed though so the uni should offer extra maths classes in Year 1 to catch up. Engineering IS maths! So much maths!

I honestly think it's mainly on grades. My son had really good experience and still got rejected by two of the places he applied for Aeronautical Engineering. I think there's a lot of variation with the offers according to whether or not people are eligible for contextual offers and that some students are required to get way higher than the published standard offers.

some students are required to get way higher than the published standard offers.

The only place I've heard of that happening is Cambridge - are there others to be wary of?

Bristol and Bath rejected my son when he met standard offers and had a fourth A level and frankly amazing work experience which he'd arranged himself. He was literally left in charge of an engineering service department at 16 which made equipment which he saw being used at the open days (including Bristol's). They'd been amazed at the open day that he knew what it was and were really impressed so I'm not sure who does their admissions.

This is also what leads me to think they don't read personal statements. And I've heard other people say Bristol don't.

I think Imperial may also want higher than published grades in many cases too.

DS graduated last year in mech eng. When he applied to university, he had v high predicted grades, and got offers absolutely immediately from the bottom two choices, so I'm sure they didn't read the PS, then the next two were also very quick. His top choice was Bath, which took longer to reply, so I don't know whether they read the PS or not.

Thanks all. It’s such a minefield, so basically no one can be sure if admissions even read personal statements so I’ll encourage him to take on engineering related activities to emphasise his interest in the field but not to lose too much sleep over it.

My son is in Year 13 and has applied for Mech Eng so I can tell you what he has/hasn’t done and what the outcome has been so far. His situation might give you a little bit of reassurance. The admissions process is a mystery to me as he isn’t a particularly strong candidate compared to many but has still managed to secure some good offers so has been very fortunate.

Like your son, Mech Eng has not been his life long passion. He just knew that he loves Maths and Physics and wanted to take them further without doing a pure Maths or Physics degree. He actually didn’t finalize his degree choice until just before Christmas when he applied.

His A-levels are Maths, Further Maths and Physics. Predicted A* A A. No EPQ. He got an offer from Southampton in February, followed by Loughborough then Birmingham in March. Bath responded a few weeks ago but have offered him Robotics. He is still waiting to hear from Bristol.

His PS was well written but it didn’t demonstrate a passion for Mech Eng specifically. It was more about his passion for Maths and Physics that has now led onto an interest in engineering etc. This is probably why Bath didn’t offer the ultra competitive Mech course. I feel that Bath and Bristol were always a long shot anyway as you’re competing against students that have a history of interest in Mech and probably 3/4 predicted A’s/A*’s, a relevant EPQ plus work experience.

I have been told that Bath do read the PS but I don’t know for sure. Although the e-mail they sent about the course switch did make it sound like they had. I have no idea about the other universities. Maybe Bath thought his passion for Maths/Physics was a good fit for Robotics. Who knows.

I hope that other people have given you some good ideas for boosting the PS. However, it is still possible to get offers with very little but it’s nerve wracking when you know you are up against some outstanding students. I would recommend something online in a relevant subject that he can do over the summer holidays? My son did something relating to physics. I’m sure school can advise on this. I’m guessing admissions first look at predicted grades and subjects, whether you are state, selective or private school then use the PS if necessary to make final decisions??

Good luck.

Don't know if they still do it, but Imperial used to be another. It seemed based on interview as much as anything.

That was a reply to Errol.

FM is not usually a required A level, as not all settings offer it.

But if your school does offer FM and you choose not to take it is a different matter

My dc is studying engineering and it seems to be very maths heavy.

DS studied economics on a very mathematical course at LSE. (He took more maths courses than his friend studying engineering at Impe.) FM was not required, but seen as desirable. Acceptance rates were about 1 in 12.

Several of his UK peers had been to schools that did not offer FM. However some of them had self studied to AS. The advantage was:

1. It gave them advantage when applying as it presumably told the University that they were self starters with maths aptitude.

1. It helped them in the first year. Arriving without FM was brutal. The work requirements are already high and students are having to adapt to University ways of working. DS said they effectively covered the contents of a FM paper in a couple of lectures. Great if it is revision. Not great if you are learning the content for the first time.

@Bickleymumma
Bristol clearly say they will differentiate between students by assessing the PS. They say what they are looking for. See attached. Hearsay about the PS is not worth listening to. Read what each university says. Bristol also give weighting to GCSEs. As the thread in the “Oxbridge rejects” shows, not all universities are transparent. However if a university is sought after, never assume the PS is not read.

It may also be true that many applicants offer FM for the top ranked courses. If he has not taken it, then I would look at a variety of universities. To be honest, Exeter is not an engineering powerhouse. I would look at the other universities mentioned but also look at BEng. Students can upgrade to MEng after year 1 if good enough. I would add in Surrey, Liverpool, Leeds and Newcastle.

Also some forms of engineering are not maths, maths and more maths. Look closely at content. He does need to understand that engineering is problem solving. It is not just about mathematical solutions either. A grand dose of common sense goes a long way and engineering nous works wonders! Also: why Mechanical engineering? Why not Civil or Environmental? Or building services? Look at all the options including those slightly more work specific.

Lastly: decent engineers are very employable. However companies do not just want engineering mathematicians. They need people with broader skills. So look at the ICE website to see what branches of engineering there are and then look at the institutions. Then look at accredited courses. Some of our former polytechnics offer excellent courses producing very employable grads. No engineer should think they cannot be successful in their chosen field because they don’t have FM. Economics at other universities is of no relevance. Choosing the right courses to apply to for engineering is what matters.

@CaveyWavey
Your DS has FM. This makes a difference! It’s all about applying for the right course at the right place. Also BEng leads to Incorporated Engineer. MEng is the direct route to Chartered Engineer. Always bear that in mind. Also if a university says it will read the PS AA a tie breaker, it will read quite a few these days! I do think demonstrating an “understanding of engineering” as stated by Bristol is key for the sought after courses and universities. It pays to read all the info and do what is required.

@Bickleymumma and @CaveyWavey sorry to resurrect old post, but I just wondered if you could share how things worked out for your sons? Where did they go in the end? Are they enjoying the course? The uni? How much has doing FM, or not doing FM, helped/ hindered? Anything else you now know that you wish you had known before?

My son is in a very similar situation just one year behind (exactly the same subjects and scenario as you CaveyWavey, exactly 🤓) hoping to do Mech Eng. Three offers including Loughborough so far, still waiting for Bristol and Bath. Results this summer.

Many thanks