Oxbridge computer science - no further maths

[Satsumalime]

Is it still worth applying even without further maths? School offers it as an a level but due to ill health could only schedule 3 not 4 a levels into a workable timetable

My understanding is that if the school offers FM Oxbridge will expect it to be taken
It might be worth contacting their preferred College/department to check?

*and as an aside I would add that the Oxbridge application process is very demanding. If their health is not good it may exacerbate ill health. It’s not just the UCAS application, there’s the additional Personal statement, the entrance exams and then all the interview preparation before the stress of the actual interviews. All take time out of a student’s schedule and are stressful. Obviously it’s up to them if they want to apply but just to let you know it can have an impact

They would expect it. Not just Oxbridge but also Imperial if your child would be interested (on par w Oxbridge for CS and a more practical course)

The only reason Further Maths is not a requirement for Computer Science in Oxbridge is because not every school offers Further Maths. If the school offers FM, the student is expected to have taken it.

Almost 100% of entrants have Further Mathematics and offers usually include a requirement of an A* in FM.

Computer Science at Oxbridge is very intense. It is a lot more intense than studying four A-levels.

This is depressing. DS was intending to study 3 A levels (Maths, Physics, Compsci) with a view to studying Compsci at uni. The school offers FM which hadn’t previously been in the equation. So, you’re all saying to study FM as well to get into a top Uni? We aren’t looking at Oxbridge but Imperial/Russel Group.

Have had a look at Imperial. The requirements are AAA for 3 A levels and AAAA for 4. Maths is compulsory and recommended subjects are Computer Science, Physics and FM so I suppose it boils down to whether you think 2 x A are realistic or whether it’s better to spread the grades across more subjects. But the flip side is that the extra A level will produce a more heavy workload which might better be spent trying to achieve 2 x A* in fewer subjects.

Oh great, the * had made the bold fail. You’re all intelligent people. You know what I mean

I would definitely advise taking FM if aiming for compsci at top universities. If you look at the FOI requests at the top universities for compsci then you'll see that there are very few admissions to students without. If he is really not keen then go through all of the FOI requests for this information, for various universities, and make sure at least three of his applications are to universities that regularly admit students without FM.

With Maths, Physics and compsci there is a fair bit of overlap so I don’t think FM is the work of another whole A level. Certainly a couple of mine did M, FM, P and chemistry and it wasn’t the same load as the one who did history, economics, maths and physics (which did get dropped in year 13 due to load).

Thank you - I’ll contact his Maths teacher. He’s on course to get a 9 this summer so I would he would be capable of adding on FM.

My son is doing an integrated masters in Maths at a Russell Group uni. He was not originally taking Further Maths at A level but he decided he wanted to at the beginning of his last year at school. He pretty much taught it all to himself at home in the summer holidays until he had caught up with the class enough to join it because he was obviously a year behind. It's possible for your son to get it if he needs it even if he doesn't originally start off doing it, if he can put the work in.

Hi, OP -

I am a former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor. My School is just below Oxbridge and Imperial in our discipline.

Sadly PPs, specifically @JocelynBurnell and @curiousllama ate correct. Various PPs also make the excellent point that doings CS at one of these institutions is much more demanding than adding FM to the A level mix. If health has been an issue, perhaps your DS would thrive better in a less intense programme?

With a good CS degree from a good university he will have excellent prospects. It doesn’t have to be Oxbridge or Imperial.

CS is a very competitive course. DS's friend has 4 A star predictions (in FM) and was rejected from Imperial and Bristol this year.

Thank you all. Very good info here.

DH has googled the Oxford entry criteria and yes, FM is a requirement. Thanks for starting this thread, OP. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution.

@OrangeWoolCardiWrap Ds is at Durham studying computer science. His A levels were maths, fm, physics and computer science. He did computer science for GCSE so the A level is like an extension of that. It isn't like doing a new subject from scratch.

The way maths/fm is taught at his sixth form is they are timetabled 5 contact hours per week for each subject but it still leaves 5 hours for free periods, plus assembly, plus a tutor group thing. So it isn't like the timetable is rammed full. He didn't do an EPQ. They do the entirety of the maths A level in year 12 using those 10 hours per week. Then fm in year 13 sitting both exams in year 13 as the fm should also cement the maths.

If your son comes in on a grade 9 from GCSE it should be completely manageable says Ds. The main thing for A levels is keeping on top of the work and asking for help from teachers if he feels he hasn't understood something or is struggling with something. That is for all subjects. Durham ask A star AA but like the above poster the FOI will tell you Durham take very few students on that grade, usually higher so this is all about motivation and determination and a good work ethic. Ds says that it felt less than GCSEs workload wise and if you love maths then 50% of your timetable is a breeze.

Ds says fm absolutely comes into play for computer science at Durham. The vast majority of applicants to top universities will have further maths so this is who they are competing against. However, Newcastle and York have much less maths focus for their computer science, this is anecdotal from friends of Ds who are at those unis.

@Satsumalime sorry to hear about your son's health. A possibility is to continue with the 3 A level, ace those out, then take a gap year and do the further maths A level before applying to Oxford. Also in the meantime look at supercurriculars ie anything computer science related outside of his A level, there are summer schools some online, any TED talks, books etc. Does he have a specific area of interest computer science wise? He can add all of this and what he learned, what it led to reading/listening to etc for his personal statement.

If they only allow you to take 3, I would recommend Maths, Further Maths and Physics (Computer Science is NOT a requirement at any university, and programming can be done as a hobby at home). CS is very Maths heavy at the top universities. Even if FMaths is not a requirement, the student may struggle with the Maths in the first year of the degree without having done it.

More want FM than CS at A’Level and lots this year have been rejected with all 9’s at GCSE and 3A*s in hand.

DS has a friend studying CS at Bath. Due to ill health, he also had to drop one A Level, but he was advised to keep Maths, FM and Physics and dropped CS.

@Whalesong this would also have been my advice. In fact I think this set of three ALs is fine preparation for CS from the start.

If your DC gets a place for CS without FM, they may well struggle with the course. They will have to try to make up the missing maths skills while trying to complete the uni course.

I would really avoid the ultra competitive universities. Oxford CS has around a 1:20 chance of getting in. Imperial is hugely competitive too. Take the stress away and aim top 20. It’s all very well aiming for the absolute best, but health and completing the course matter too.