Medicine a level choices

[34and3]

Just asking for my niece here who is year 10 so still a while.

Chemistry is a must, she knows. She also loves maths so those 2 are her definites.

Then can't decide between

1. maths, chemistry, biology (seems logical to me layman for medicine?!)

2. maths, chemistry, physics

Any wise words?

Of the two, I'd opt for the first one due to the biology. However, it depends which she's best at. Medicine is, as I'm sure you know, fierce competition so highest marks win out most of the time.

I'd also suggest she does an Extended Project on something linked to medicine if her school offers it. For example, one of my Y12 students is aiming for medicine and she's writing her EP on Social differences in access to health care in the UK. I had one a few years ago do his on a specific type of cancer treatment (don't ask. I barely understood the title!).
It gives her the edge over someone who simply has three good ALevels (they all have those, so needs something else) and it'll be an added thing to show she understands the human side of medicine, not just the 'nuts and bolts' of the body etc.
Beyond that, hunt out as much work experience as possible (Aware that wasn't what you were asking about but a useful aside, I hope)

Thank you very much the reply. Yes I think she is planning on an epq (?) Still baffles me chemistry is the pre requisite over biology!

Biology with Chem. Unless she wants to keep doors open for engineering/ physics degrees?

@Dotcheck she has also expressed an interest in architecture which she believes is also maths/physics (and art) so yes doing those would allow options either way (would mean 4 subjects though to keep the chemistry in)

My ds was going in for Economics, so chose Maths (& FM), Chemistry and Economics. His EPQ had nothing to do with medicine. Then in February of his A levels year he announced he was changing to medicine. Great timing as this was in 2020.

He did make sure that everywhere he applied to accepted his A levels, but had 5 interviews so was obviously not disadvantaged by his choices.

I'm a mature medical student. I did totally different A Levels but in terms of what I would have found more useful- biology hands down.

That's not to say Physics would not have been very applicable too (fluid dynamics, electrical currents etc) so if she wants to keep the door open to Architecture then to be honest I don't think either is a bad option (unless of course some undergrad courses specify otherwise, I wouldn't know) so tell her not to stress over it too much. If anything, she could have a look at the syllabus and go with the one she feels she will get the better marks in. No point making life difficult.

As PP says, some work experience would be very helpful. This would not only help her decide if medicine is really for her, but also give her a lot more to draw upon at interview. She should be aware it can take time to recruit volunteers at hospices, hospitals etc. so to get applying sooner rather than later.

I’d also say keep an open mind.

check the chosen 6th form will allow her to switch a-level choices for her back up plan if the gcse results fall a little short.

Oh, that said, I actually did do Fine Art. It's a very time consuming A Level so she may want to think carefully before trying to cram in too much to keep her options open.

@Annoyedwithmyself I can imagine it's very time consuming indeed - particularly as she's such a perfectionist and can spend hours / days fining details

My dd currently has 3 offers for medicine and is doing chemistry, physics, maths, further maths A levels. She opted not to do biology as she doesn't enjoy the plant-based elements, and knew she would do better in maths/fm more easily. Biology is a requirement for some unis for medicine (eg Nottingham) but not the ones she was most interested in - it's worth looking at this before deciding.

PE is also worth thinking about as it has anatomy, physiology, public health content too. She did it at GCSE and is a much under-rated subject imho.

@Whorrafeeeling interesting about PE. Dn is not very sporty though to be honest and she's not doing it at gcse but I can see the benefit.

She has said the same re plant content for alevel biology. She definitely has a maths brain so I think she'd be more suited to physics.

Maths, chemistry and biology is the standard, but by no means the only option.

Just do your research and see which Universities require biology, and if she’s happy with that decision.

It’s so competitive that personally I wouldn’t recommend closing any doors, and therefore would recommend biology. However, it’s also very important that they can achieve three A’s so do take that into account.

EPQ is good - my daughter did one and she did talk about it at interview and also some Unis allow a dropped A level grade if they achieve an A in their EPQ so that’s worth looking into too. However again, the A level results are so important, only do an EPQ if this won’t affect them by taking up time.

Best of luck- it’s quite a journey the medicine application but there are some great threads on here to help.

With current entry requirements (see https://www.medschools.ac.uk/media/2951/entry-requirements-document-2023-entry.pdf), biology and chemistry keeps the largest number of options open. When she's closer to the point of having to make her choices she can look at which medical schools she'd be ruling out by not doing biology, as this might influence her decision.

Keeping other career options open is more of a challenge. Architecture courses don't usually specify required A-Level subjects but many express a preference for a mixture of science & art, so chemistry, biology and maths wouldn't be a good combination for that pathway.

Re the more common requirement for chemistry over biology for medicine, this is partly because the pre-2017 biology A-Level included very little human biology (this seems to have changed since human biology A-Level was abolished) and medical schools are not renowned for adapting quickly to changes in pre-university qualifications, and because medical schools teach a lot of human biology but generally don't teach any chemistry, so the chemistry required for understanding biochemistry, pharmacology, etc., is expected to be in place before students arrive. However, nearly twenty-five years' experience of teaching medical students tells me most of them have actively expelled all chemistry from their memories by the time they arrive at university. Assuming students have acquired any subject knowledge from A-Levels is foolish. My colleagues insist on teaching all aspects of physiology, cell biology, immunology, etc., from scratch as the A-Level biology content is often very superficial and some important topics aren't covered at all.

Newcastle don't care what your A levels are in - don't even need sciences.
As has been said, biology and chemistry keep all options open. Maths is a v common 3rd but it really doesn't matter. However keeping options open is tougher as physics without maths is sometimes frowned upon.
It's better to do 3 A levels and an EPQ, as some Unis drop the offer to AAB with an EPQ.
Sure that's but very helpful ! I'd do maths if unsure about architecture- most places don't need art but will need a portfolio, which is time consuming to do.

Thanks all! I've relayed this all to her.

It seems she needs to firm up
Maths, chemistry, physics (medicine as she isn't interested in the plant side of biology really)

Maths, art, physics (architecture)

She is very much leaning towards medicine but is concerned about the competition. She will struggle a lot if she gets rejected so I think she's clinging on to what she perceives to be in with a better shot (architecture).

Obviously still got time and a lot of pep talks about believing in herself.

@34and3 tell her if she wants medicine, she will get it. Might take 2 tries (v common), but most who really want it do get in. But she'll need to be resilient as it's a tough 5 years !

Ah that's encouraging @mumsneedwine thank you

Maths is useful when you get to medical school. DD found that classmates without it struggled with some of the first year content.

It is worth having 2 STEM/lab science A levels, including chemistry. Then it depends on the student. Dyslexic DD found biology the hardest, but others will find it the easiest. Relatively few take physics, but if a student is maths/physics oriented and less than 100% sure that they want to study medicine, it keeps engineering type doors open. It is also useful if radiology is a potential direction.

DD was able to take five, so 3 sciences, maths and electronics. If she had had to narrow it down, she would have chosen maths physics and chemistry. Engineering was her fallback, what she chose to study as her intercalation and where the physics and electronics really helped. A school friend, who was an exceptional mathematician, opted to intercalate in epidemiology. Medicine has a broad range of careers and so there is advantage in keeping up subjects where you are naturally strong or have an interest. This board is focussed on actually getting in to medical school, but it is worth keeping an eye on longer term ambitions, as long as they fit most medical school criteria. A student will probably get better grades in subjects they enjoy.

Note: being an academic high flier is not an advantage when applying for medicine. Neither DD nor her friend did particularly well in the application process with DD only getting an offer late in the process and her friend having to take a gap year to reapply. However once in, strong academics makes life easier.

I agree about PE. DD took a sport to a high level and so had access to physio and nutrition advice which is what sparked her interest in medicine. IT (whatever the subject is now called) might also be a good one if there were an interest in academic medicine. Regardless of career, an ability to code and to handle data will increasingly be an advantage. .

For a lot of architecture (especially the BSc rather than the BA) art needs to be a portfolio rather than art a level. So keeping her eye in and building that (can be digital as well) is very useful.

Then an epq architecture aligned.

Maths, chem and physics keeps most doors open to her. Medicine is still an option, architecture is in, plus all the engineerings.

Medical physics could be something to consider?

She doesn’t need physics/ math for architecture. Art/ 3-d design or similar would be more useful

@Dotcheck she has checked bath / Bristol and they require maths / physics / art for architecture

Sorry not Bristol - just Bath!

Most courses don’t though

@Dotcheck Quite a few architecture students don’t get jobs either. Those with the most relevant A levels might plus the best university degrees. Bath is top!

Uni of Bristol doesn’t do Architecture. UWE maybe? Chalk and cheese.

Also I’m amazed someone saying they want to be a doctor isn’t looking at anything else in healthcare if they are worried about getting in. How keen is DD? Architecture is another world! Less money and less pension! Long hours guaranteed so the same there!