Any insights on the difference between Ox & Cam for History?

[Ooolaaaala]

DD Y12 just starting to think about Uni options - she is v keen on studying History and applying to Oxbridge. Anyone have any insights between the two re application process and studying there?

Seems also that O has AAA standard offer whilst C is a A*AA standard offer and seems same number of applications per offer. Swings and roundabouts!

The following colleges require candidates to sit the HAA:
Clare, Christ’s, Emmanuel, Fitzwilliam, Gonville & Caius, Hughes Hall, Jesus, Lucy Cavendish, Magdalene, Murray Edwards, Newnham, Peterhouse, Queens’, Robinson, St Catharine’s, St John’s, Sidney Sussex, Trinity Hall.
The following colleges have their own required assessment:
St Edmund’s 🔗 | Wolfson 🔗 | Trinity 🔗 ‘Candidates are asked to discuss a set of documents that they will have had a chance to study one or two hours before one of their interviews.’ -Trinity Admissions Administrator

Oh wow thanks @Piggywaspushed - where did you find all of this info - I seemed to be pushed around a loop when I was on the website

Google!

The website was very evasive...

There was info in the requirements per college for History at Cambridge but it looks like it has been removed with an updated version due later this month.

OP, as mentioned earlier, my DS applied successfully to Cambridge for history as he preferred course to O’s. He picked a college he liked the look of - without the slightest regard as to whether it wanted the HAA or not. It was not a factor at all.

His friends reading history could, theoretically, have done one of four things:

1. Just applied to the college they wanted as my DS did
2. made an open application
3. Actively wanted to sit the HAA because if they did well in that, the weighting of interview performances is not so high. So applied to HAA colleges. He knows a few people who did this as they considered themselves shy/not confident in interviews
4. Actively wanted to avoid the HAA. He has not met a single person at his college (cohort of 11 freshers doing history) who picked the college for that reason though. If you can’t pass the HAA, why would you want to read history at C?

The more important consideration for your DD is college admissions statistics. For example, if she is at an exclusive private school, perhaps best to apply to the likes of Trinity or Robinson. As my DS was at a poor state school, we had an entirely different filter!

Both Oxford and Cambridge universities do essay competitions for History. I will see if I can find them for you. There is also a girls only one. She will need to do them now in y12 to include them in her PS.

My son did the Julia Wood one and the Robson one. There is also the Vellacott I think it is called.

That’s a good way of looking at the HAA that it is a balance of another experience / opportunity etc.

She is at a state grammar for 6th form (was at an independent previously - not an exclusive or high achieving one though if that matters or is measured).

So should she be looking for a college then that has high intake of state (non grammar / non independent) candidates?

If she is at a grammar, it makes no difference what college she applies to at C.

I would recommend looking at the admissions stats and choosing one that is - 1) convenient for the history dept (where lectures will be) and 2) takes a reasonably consistent number each year (you might see some colleges are much more variable than others - eg. some pools students every year, some nearly always take a lot from the pool, etc).

In general, they say Oxford is a city with a university in it, whereas Cambridge feels more like a university with a city around it (something like that anyway).

There are 30-odd colleges at both and it can seem bewildering. But to start with at C -

St Edmunds, Hughes Hall and Darwin's are postgrad colleges so they're out.

Newnham and Murray Edwards are female-only, which may or may not appeal.

Churchill (quite a STEM-focused college), Fitzwilliam, Robinson are colleges with 60s / 70s architecture which may or may not be an factor for some.

The smallest colleges (in terms of student numbers) are Peterhouse, Corpus Christi and Trinity Hall. Could mean a very supportive / bonding experience, could be a bit claustrophobic?

The largest colleges (I think) are Trinity, Jesus, St Johns and Homerton.

Girton is quite far out of town (by Cambridge standards) - about 2 miles out to the north of the centre. Homerton is about 1.5 miles to the south of town. Both have huge grounds. Homerton has an orchard, beautiful new dining hall, accommodation on site for all three years. It is the most diverse college in terms of student intake and has a reputation for being very friendly and forward-thinking. Girton has a pool. It used to be a woman-only college, so a lot of history about inspiring women all around.

Kings is the only college who do not wear gowns to formals.

Emanuel have horrible first-year rooms apparently, but the good news is they are building brand new accommodation for next year, so could be worth a look.

DC informs me he is glad he's not at Christs as they close their bar during exams!

I have also heard that at St Johns, choice of second year accommodation is determined by who does best in first-year exams.

But in general, all the old colleges are stunning and even the modern ones have beautiful grounds. You can't go wrong with any of them.

So should you just consider the colleges to be halls of residence and choose one who’s location, size, facilities etc suits …. ie that the choice will have zero impact on whether selected or not?

In theory, the pooling / multiple colllege interviews (Oxford) systems work to try to ensure that students who are of the (high) ‘admittable standard’ will get a place somewhere, regardless of whether their first choice college was dramatically over-subscribed or not.

This does work to avoid extreme cases - like the year 200 applicants applied to the same college which typically took 4 for a particular subject - and it does also mean that trying too hard to ‘play the system’ doesn’t really work because colleges will reject weaker applicants putting them first in favour if stronger applicants who originally applied to other colleges.

However, it can be marginally beneficial to apply for a college where you are not from an already disproportionately well represented group, or for one of the less well - known colleges if you have no string preferences.

In the end, it’s probably best not to fall in love too much with a college as there is a decent chance that you may in fact be offered a different one.

However, it can be marginally beneficial to apply for a college where you are not from an already disproportionately well represented group, or for one of the less well - known colleges if you have no string preferences.

Thankyou @cantkeepawayforever

Does this advice apply to both O & C?

Marginal benefit is worth exploring - how do we go about finding out which are the less well known colleges and which ones have disproportionately less grammar school candidates - where can we find this information?

Ooolaaaala - at Oxford, yes. I understand they look at applications on a departmental level there. So if, in a given year, there are loads of applicants for History to particular colleges, they reallocate some of them to colleges that have less applicants, so that the ratios of applicants per place are roughly even.

At Cambridge, they do not do this. So at some colleges in a given year, they might have 40 applicants for 5 History places, at another it might be 20 for 5 places.

If you look at the Cambridge admissions stats (the interactive graphs) it may give you some idea of trends at particular colleges. Having said this, it's unpredictable.

Cambridge say that the 'winter pool' ensures that worthy applicants are not disadvantaged by applying to over-subscribed colleges in a given year.

But what this pool is, is one or two days in early Jan when colleges can look at the files of applicants who have been put in the pool by other colleges. They can broadly compare to the calibre of the applicants they are planning to accept. But (unlike at Oxford) they only have the file and the interview scores given by the other college. They will not re-interview (except in very rare cases).

At Oxford, if they are a strong candidate but not as strong as others at that college, they will be sent to another college, or two or even three) to be re-interviewed.

So what this means is the system at Oxford is probably more standardised / fair - but also perhaps more stressful as applicants may have loads of interviews, over various days / weeks and still not be offered anything. At Cambridge, college choice probably matters more (because some tutors are generally more inclined to pool / take from the pool than others, while some seem not to bother so much).

It is confusing, but hope that helps.

Grammar, tbh, not going to count one way or the other. Counted as state schools, so welcome anywhere (compared with, say, ancient public schools applying to ancient colleges).

As a general rule of thumb, single sex and more modern = less well known. Central, ancient, famous - eg Kings in Cambridge = more well known.

Yes would agree with cantkeepawayforever that for grammar it don't matter which college.

The only circumstances where school sector / type may be an issue is - eg. If they are from a low performing state it may be better to apply to a college with a higher independent / grammar intake as they will be looking to improve their WP stats in relation to other colleges. All colleges are looking to improve their WP stats year on year. Conversely, if from an independent school, you may be better applying to a college that already tends to have 80% of its applications from the state sector (eg. Homerton or Kings) as they may be more inclined to hold on to the independent candidates they do have (when I say 'hold on', I just mean WP criteria may be less of a consideration because that college is already meeting its targets).

One of DS’ mates picked John’s because of its proximity to football pitches. Another picked Sidney Sussex coz it is very handy for Sainsburys! Another chose Pembroke because they’d heard it has the best food!

So no need to overthink it 😂

DC1 did History for BA and MPhil at Cambridge, from non-selective comp.
What made her application strong (apart from usual clutch of good GCSEs and A* A level predictions) was her super-curricular stuff: volunteering at local museum on a particular project, doing a couple of MOOCs (on FutureLearn I think) related to her A Level course, and a very niche EPQ that involved independent archival study at a specialist museum. She had to do the entrance exam (HAT or whatever was in use 7 years ago) plus submit examples of her work - she used A Level essays and a draft of her EPQ.

(Incidentally, and this is from DC2 so unrelated to History - not all first year Emma rooms are bad. The 70s concrete blocks are interesting certainly, but there is one Edwardian block which is lovely - rooms are generous, lots of kitchens, good bathrooms.)