St Andrews - any point in applying if RUK

[dustybee]

My DS plans to study Geography (MA) and likes St Andrews. If you are RUK is there any point applying as it looks from TSR that people with perfect stats are rejected. He is predicted either 2 A and 1 A or 3 A for A levels, state school and has good gcses (8x9, 2 x8). He does not want to waste an application spot if there is very little chance. Any advice welcome!

sorry grades came out without stars. He is predicted either 2 A stars and 1 A, or 3 A stars.

Typically the competition for places for rUK and Ireland applicants to Scottish universities is less that for Scottish applicants because there is not the same cap on the number of places.

St. Andrews is a small university which takes in only a fraction of the number of undergraduates some others do. Achieving the grades alone may not guarantee you a place. If he really wants to go there then apply for it. He can always apply for somewhere else which is less difficult to get into as a backup.

We are based in London. My DD was accepted last year for MA Geography with two A stars and A. (In the event she achieved 3 A stars🤷🏻‍♀️.)

She is doing well academically and enjoying the overall experience.

My impression is that the personal statement is very important and that they definitely do read it. I also have the impression that it is easier to get a place as a RUK student than a Scottish student due to the funding regime.

Apply! St Andrews is v,v, competitive, but worth it 🙂

But be prepared to wait a v v long time for a decision. DC submitted UCAS form last October and is still waiting to hear from St A 6 months later. In terms of speed of decisions (if not actual places) they seem to prioritise international, contextual, Scottish (we are RUK non-selective state but not contextual).
All other decisions are in and would love to finalise firm/insurance place as exams fast approaching. There has been a massive flurry of rejections over the past week (another TSR lurker here!) but still nothing here - yet…

International students are much more likely to apply to more universities in a variety of countries than UK students and international student fees subsidise home students. So it is not really a surprise that universities are keen to make a good impression and secure them first.

Thankyou all- v useful. @Stockpot does the personal statement need to be targeted towards St Andrews specifically do you think, or is there anything in particular they look for? The course looks excellent, and as others say if he really loves it - so probably worth trying

DD wrote a personal statement focused on human geography. It wasn’t tilted specifically at St Andrew’s.

Definitely worth applying as a RUK student as your child’s chances are definitely higher than if they were a Home student

Saying that it is very competitive as it features so highly in the rankings for most subjects but I’m not sure it’s any worse than say Durham or Bristol

We live in Scotland and my youngest got their St Andrews offer at the end of 2022. They’re predicted 4 A Stars. Many of their friends though are still waiting as they’re Home students at a non state school so it’s very hard for them to get into Scots universities

Good luck with yours son’s application

I think with those grades the odds are around 1 in 3 applicants accepted from RUK for St Andrews. Better odds than Oxbridge for just as good a Uni.

DS applied to Oxbridge and St A’s with predicted 3 X A*’s and an A and he got rejected from both.

He also knows a few from his school with the same or similar predicted grades and not one of them received an offer for St A’s. So it is highly competitive. He is now at Durham doing well and is extremely happy.

Check to see if your postcode / school qualifies for a widening participation offer. My son is in his third year there now. Predicted AAA and was offered ABB. Achieved Astar, AStar, A. English state comprehensive pupil with good but certainly not stellar GCSE’s. We were told the personal statement was really important and they like to hear your ‘own voice’. He absolutely loves it there. He applied late October and had an offer just before Xmas. Definitely worth a try!

Exactly the same here! St Andrews was the first offer, made before Christmas 😎

I think it depends on the course. I watched the open day Zoom with DS and the admissions chap for biology stated quite clearly they choose Scottish students first, then overseas and finally RUK. DS still wanted to apply. He was predicted 3A stars and rejected. We calculated the conversion rate for that course from application to starting there was worse that Cambridge NatSci (didn't apply there). Two of his friends from school applied for humanities courses and they didn't receive offers either. DS is a happy first year at Durham.

I'd imagine there is some variety between courses at St.Andrews.

However over 40% of its full-time undergrads are international students - with half of those from North America; mainly the US. You'd have to look at Unis in London - no prizes for guessing which ones - to find higher international undergrad percentages. The likes of Oxford, Cambridge, Durham, Bristol, Exeter are between 19 % and 23%; so around half the StA level.

Of the remaining just under 60% UK students at St.A - Scottish students just make the majority; but with students from England only just behind at 46%. And therefore very few from Wales and N.Ireland. Perhaps of no great surprise that just over half the students from England hail from London and the Home Counties.

So whilst undoubtedly competitive, as one might expect from a top tier uni, certainly plenty from England have successful applications.

It feels like a bit of a lottery, but certainly worth applying. DS has very average GCSEs (CAGS and he had flunked his mocks) but grew up a lot in 6th form, got good predictions and wrote an exceptional (head of 6th comment, not mine) personal statement. He got an offer and is now there. We're rUK.

Definitely worth applying. As with any competitive uni, you need to have back ups that you are happy with. Both DC (RUK) got offers in Oct/Nov (Humanities). DC1 went for Cambridge in the end but DC2 thinking of firming St A after an impressive Offer Holder Day. Lots from their school have been rejected despite having great academics, genuine interest in the subject and lovely personalities. It’s a lottery. Not sure if it’s relevant but my DC are doing 4 A Levels and their PS were focused on particular areas of academic interest.

It’s really really really small. They only take 2000 undergraduates a year. 800 of those are international. Approximately 650 are then Scottish and about 550 RUK. That’s a really small number so it affects offers.

dc was rejected this year with straight 9s at gcse and three A stars predicted in relevant subjects plus EPQ and top grade in core maths.

Sorry, I meant three A stars predicted in A Levels of course

Last year they had circa 26000 applications for 2000 places

What’s the profile of the US international students who apply - what are they drawn to?

My son's friend (England) applied early as he was also applying to Cambridge. Didn't get Cambridge but St As gave him a lower offer than expected (and he went there).

It's predominantly Americans.

Sorry, not concentrating. Rich Americans who like the prestige factor. Costs are similar to them studying in the US.