Insurance Choice - Imperial vs UCL vs Bath

[Teriyakieverything]

We are having difficulties deciding on the insurance choice. Dd has an Oxbridge offer for STEM course, condition are challenging at A star (FM), A star (Chemistry) and A (Physics). Predicted grades are 4 x A stars (Chemistry, Physics, Maths and FM). Dd's other offers are

Imperial - Astar (Chemistry), AA (Maths and Physics)
UCL - AAA (Chemistry, Maths and Physics)
Bath - AABB (A has to be in Chemistry)

At the moment, she thinks she wants to go to Imperial as her insurance choice, but we are not sure if the grade conditions are so high as to not be much of an insurance, and if the A levels (somehow...bad day, bad luck...) go wrong for her, she would have declined the other perfectly great uni offers.

I appreciate this is somewhat of a first world problem, but would be grateful for the wise heads of MN to offer advice and perspectives to help us stop looping round in circles when Dd discusses this with us.

Does she want to live in London? Can she afford to?

Personally I would pick Bath as a back up

Yes, she likes the London vibe and the idea of living in London, having visited both Imperial and UCL.

Can you say what the course is? That might make a difference.

They are all excellent universities.

Will your DD be eligible for a bursary from any of them? The income threshold and amounts are different for all three.

I'm giving advice having seen the outcomes of some disappointed kids in my son's A level cohort last year. Quite a few kids played it safe for their insurance but decided they didn't really want to go to those unis when push came to shove on results day. Rather than putting a uni they were really excited about as second choice.

So I'd say go for Imperial. If she doesn't get either, she can either retake one of her A levels or take a gap year and reapply to a different set of universities. (And I know one child who received a much-wanted Imperial offer for engineering last year and they have reoffered again this year when he didn't quite make one of the grades).

@chesirecat99 Chemistry. No she is not eligible for bursary from any of them.

@dew141 That's exactly what I fear might happen....what if come results day, she misses the Oxbridge offer but meets the Imperial offer, but did not choose Imperial....

HI, OP -

Former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor here. Imperial is the outstanding choice of the three insurance options but honestly, that word is to be taken literally. Imperial is usually a first choice, not a back up. I would want my own DC to use it for insurance only of they were fully prepared to take a gap year.

Between Bath and UCL it’s six of one and half dozen of the other, IMO. I am a big fan of Bath for UGs but many others feel the same way about UCL and as you say, she likes London. The good news is that she will likely be very competitive at both places again next year. As worst case scenarios go, that’s a bloody good one

If your DD wants Imperial as her insurance, she should certainly choose it.

If she doesn't reach her Imperial offer, she can apply to Chemistry in Bath via clearing.

Just to add, Chemistry in Bath was in clearing (BBB) in August 2022.

Well, I can see the logic in any of those choices, but ultimately it comes down to the question of whether your dd would actually want to go to Bath (or UCL if she chose that), or whether she would prefer to take a gap year...bearing in mind, of course, that less than stellar A-level results might not give her quite so many options when it comes to reapplying, unless she decided to resit her A-levels as well.

Thank you, @JocelynBurnell I am really surprised at this.

It isn't really surprising, given that chemistry degrees are so often undersubscribed these days. Haven't lots of chemistry departments already closed due to lack of demand?

If your household income is over £60k (I'm assuming it is as your DD isn't eligible for a bursary), I would have a look at the living costs pages on the university web pages to see if you and your DD can afford to top up enough for UCL and Imperial. The London student maintenance loan isn't really enough unless your DD is scrimping and saving.

Other than that, I think your DD should pick the university she likes best. It seems unlikely with an Oxbridge place, a slew of impressive offers from excellent universities, and a prediction of 4 A stars that your DD won't make any of those other offers. She is clearly a bright young woman.

If it goes horribly wrong and she doesn't get the grades for either her firm or insurance, there is always the option of clearing. Chemistry isn't a very popular course. Or she can reapply next year.

Like you said, it would be a shame to miss the Oxbridge offer but make the Imperial offer having insured UCL or Bath instead, assuming Imperial is her favourite. Imperial has the edge over the other 2 when it comes to ranking, prestige, employability.

Personally, I think going to her 3rd or 4th choice university when she has the grades and could have gone to her 2nd choice would be worse than having to take a gap year and reapply because she didn't make either her firm or insurance offer.

I wouldn't choose Bath if she likes London. I went to Bath and I loved it but that's because I really wanted a campus uni and Bath is a bubble. It's tiny in comparison and the nightlife is very different.

@Teriyakieverything
She absolutely must go where she’s going to be happy. Put simply, Bath isn’t London. London isn’t Bath! Her offer from Imperial is insurance as it’s lower. I don’t quite see why she needs a gap year if she’s up for London. My only caveat would be accommodation. What do insurance students get? So many universities don’t have enough for insurance students.

I'd pick UCL as an insurance as then there's no risk of ending up in clearing or differing (which is discouraged for STEM courses).

Imperial, Oxbridge and UCL are the most prestigious universities in the UK, so your daughter is in a great position to have offers from Oxford, Imperial and UCL!!! Amazing. Good luck to your daughter in whatever she decides.

Thanks for all your views and kind words. I think we are thinking along similar lines @chesirecat99 @poetryandwine .

Now, she says she will sleep on it until she has to press that UCAS button, 8th June. She s even suggesting leaving it til the last minute, when she would be nearly half way through her exams and might have better feel about whether something has gone drastically wrong with the Chemistry papers 🤔….

@TizerorFizz neither Imperial nor UCL guarantee accommodation for insurance holders. And I don’t like the idea of a mad last minute scramble for accommodation in London, but if the situation arises, we would just hav3 to work through it….it is a consideration/concern. That said, I looked through both websites and Imperial does have a clear application process for insurance holders (but not guaranteed), whereas for UCL , she is not even eligible to apply and seems we would very much be out by ourselves sorting out the accommodation, somehow.

@Teriyakieverything My DD ended up with insurance and, initially, no accommodation. A while ago now but it’s a concern for any student . Mainly because the experience of having a home in a hall of residence disappears and with it a wider variety of friendships. You will be more on your own. The Imperial position looks better but finding anywhere in London is so hard. Nothing is easy is it?

@TizerorFizz what happened with your dd and teh London insurance offer she took up?

I agree, nothings easy. And the way you think about these things changes so drastically depending on the realistic options in front of you…..3months ago we were thinking what our choices would be if she was rejected from Oxbridge and Imperial, which was what we thought the scenario would probably be…especially as Imperial was so late in their offer….it would have been UCL/Bath, no brainer. But that’s why we thought, there’s too many variables, let’s wait for all the info to come through first, and take it one step at a time.

DDs insurance was actually Bristol and it was a roller coaster! She was invited to a “search for a house” day with other students with no halls. None of whom she knew but speed dating was offered. We were also away on holiday that day so she couldn’t go. It was awful. She was eventually offered a shared room in a hall and took it immediately. It was mid September by then. That was many years ago. Now it would probably be in another city! London is very short of accommodation too. It is a worry!!

Came across this thread. My DD will be applying to the university this year. I was wondering, the offer for Oxbridge that you refer to in the original post, is it for Oxford? I am quite surprised they are asking for such a high grade in FM, rather than in Chemistry...
Do you mind me asking, what was the fifth university in application? My DD is also considering St Andrews, Warwick and probably Edinburgh.
Many thanks!

I think you have misread the OP, @futureistoday. Her DD's Oxbridge offer was A* star in both Chemistry and FM.

If you are interested in finding the standard offer for a course, you can find that on the course web page. You should also be able to find data on the actual grades achieved by students who were accepted in their admissions data report eg the average grades achieved by students accepted may be higher than the standard offer for some courses. You may also be able to find information on how students are selected for interview eg for my DC's course it was 50% GCSE results (best 8 grades only) and 50% aptitude test results.

Thank you for the info. You are right, misread it.