What unis are means testing Turing scheme funding?

[Yearabroad]

NC for this one. DD applying for MFL and has heard that some universities (Birmingham is one she thinks) are means testing their Turing scheme funding. So if your household income is less than, say £25k, you don’t get funding for year abroad.

This would be a HUGE problem for us as it will be a challenge as it is to top up the minimum maintenance loan (all she qualifies for as household income is £70k).

Does anyone know which unis are means testing their Turing funding in this way?

@Picklebawl
I absolutely didn’t mean that! I meant the university (Oxbridge) and individual colleges are rich. They absolutely are! Of course the students come from a variety of backgrounds.

What I was getting at is that Oxbridge students already have a leg up in many ways. That’s why people want to go there. If the poster above is correct, their parents might now be subsidised by the colleges/university. I’m pointing out the blindingly obvious situation that, if you go elsewhere, your parents could now be required to find even more financial support. Oxbridge already heavily subsidise living costs. I strongly believe all students going abroad on a MFL degree should get the same. It definitely should not be based on how rich your university is!

My son is at Cambridge and as a child of two working parents on normal incomes he is one of the poorest students. Those with low household incomes have lots of help and then there are the mega rich students at Cambridge, so if you come from an average family you are screwed.

We are such a stupid country!!

@TizerorFizz - Agree... let's hope people wake up soon to the reality of these decisions. Turing is clearly underfunded compared with Erasmus.

I hope given. year abroad is compulsory for MFL students they will be up the pecking order for Turing Funding.

@Juja
I think they will have to.
@Cliff1975
I think it’s slightly besides the point saying there are rich parents. No doubt a few have Dc doing MFL. However their Dc would have got Erasmus funding because it is a course requirement. Not a parental finance issue. It’s definitely going to be an issue for ordinary folk.

My dd is abroad currently and receiving the last remains of Erasmus funding - not means tested whatsoever. Very generous actually!

Interesting @Bienemajas . Dd received her first installment of Turing funding (2/3 total) this week with the remaining 1/3 to follow once her host uni confirms she completed the course. She plans to return to UK next month but will use it to pay local expenses and travel beforehand.

Perhaps it's because my dd (also at Edinburgh btw) is in a European country? In fact the costs of living are so much lower than in Edinburgh, she's actually 'making money'

Whereas dd's living costs are even higher than on Edi! Tuition fees are lower though, so a smaller loan for this year. Frankly I have no idea how those without family support can even think of taking a year abroad without guaranteed funding upfront.

The issue is that most universities, when submitting their bid, will ask for enough funding to cover all students doing an international placement. However, there simply isn’t enough money in the government’s Turing budget to fully fund every university, so universities are only receiving a small portion of the total requested. This means that universities have to make a decision about which students receive the money.

Universities have to prove to Capita (who audit/run Turing) that they have used some of their funds to support students who are classed as “disadvantaged” which is why these students understandably get priority (each university has a different definition of this - it can be based of household income, or the school a student went to, or if they are from a care background).

The difficulty going forward, is that for the next academic year Erasmus funding will not be available so there will be even more students to fund under Turing (students going to Europe this year have received Erasmus funding instead). Unless the government increases the Turing budget, fewer students will receive funding at all and will be put off undertaking a year abroad, which defeats the point of the Turing Scheme.

This is not the case. The means testing is for the additional grant.

https://www.ncl.ac.uk/mobility/experience-world/outgoing_funding/#d.en.1048226

Thanks for clarifying.

As it’s a course requirement, means testing on any level is not fair. It’s not parental choice or choice once you are on the course.

Does anyone know how much Erasmus funding MFL students used to get?

@TizerorFizz Not fair, but if Unis aren't getting the full allocation then they have to make difficult choices though I hope they also prioritise students for whom the year abroad is compulsory rather than 'nice to do'.

There seems to be a lack of clarity so v hard for students to know in advance what support they will receive. I suppose everyone has access to the loan and knows it is a 4 year course. But even so they will be selecting destinations in their 2nd year without knowing if there is additional support. So willy Turing doesn't have a 5 year rolling
programme of funding so Unis know where they are

Am I correct that Erasmus was always top up funding for the additional costs of being overseas more expensive plus for travel etc?

@juja
I do think the money should go to students on a compulsory year abroad. I also know the government is pulling the strings re disadvantage. The huge danger is the students who sit between getting lots of help and having rich parents will mot want to do MFL. We need more doing MFL, not less. It’s a massive issue when universities are getting 50% of what they need. I believe going abroad is such a great experience and valuable.

@Katiestrives Like others, I think Erasmus funding came to slightly more than the maintenance loan here. So students paid rent abroad and food etc. I think fees were just swapped. Others will correct me! So the fees loan just went to your home uni as usual. I know DD had a bit left over from her Erasmus funding.

Fees at the host institution aren't swapped they are waived, but students will still pay a smaller amount to their home institution, eg 15%, which is covered by student loans as usual.

My eldest is doing a year in California and her UK uni is Swansea. She gets Turing funding including a grant for travel costs and our household income is over 30k but her boyfriend at same uni and also abroad in California doesn’t get any Turing funding so it is means tested but not with a threshold as low as 25k

Do what is the upper threshold for Turing? @PerkyBlinder California will be hugely expensive for a family on £35,000. Or even £50,000 depending on size of family or outgoings. These families will surely struggle if there’s no help. I would imagine universities apply their own max income for funding but some will have to prioritise MFL students over study in the USA.

Turing funds students under the Widening Participation criteria - which are wider than simply income (eg first in family to go into HE).

But there was also less barriers then. I presume you voted for it.

@KnickerlessParsons people getting advanced MFL levels before the EU had the benefit of free tuition fees and grants rather than loans. Check your privilege.

I don’t know the upper limit but her main source of funding is still Student Finance and then the Turing Grant has covered all travel after the first couple of hundred pounds including transfers to and from the airport. Also all visa costs and other essential costs incurred such as the health insurance specifically required by her Californian uni which was almost a grand in itself and the cost of some extra vaccinations she needed.

Her uni accommodation costs require a student to also pay for a meal plan either 5 day, 7 day, or 100 meals (she has a shared dorm on campus). There aren’t self catered options at her uni but you also get included special campus dollars which you can spend at any food outlet on campus.

I top up her loan with the same amount as I do when she’s at uni in the U.K. I’m a single mum and have been for years so it’s definitely a bit of a struggle but we manage ok.

For extra funding, she applied for a student overdraft each year for her first two years at uni in the U.K. and then didn’t use it so has had that as a buffer too and she worked like crazy last summer saving up as much as possible. She’s now almost finished her year and is getting work booked up now for the summer to pay off her overdraft which has now been well and truly used!

She hasn’t been able to travel around the States as extensively as she’d have liked but has been over to the Rockies in Colorado and to San Diego, LA, and San Francisco and is planning a trip to Vegas just before coming back to the U.K. She really wanted to visit Yosemite but that’s just too expensive. She’s been to big sports events but not the really expensive ones and tried to experience as much as possible and had an amazing time.

She’s very organised and good at budgeting and knows there’s no financial safety net for her so it definitely focuses her mind on her choices. It’s definitely easier for her financially this year though than for her boyfriend as he doesn’t get the extra Turing funding but is also aware his Dad has worked hard for his savings and he doesn’t want to clean him out just to travel about on his year abroad.

@pointythings
No fees but parents were means tested for maintenance. As they are now. The big difference is the loans and the vastly higher numbers that go into HE. The price for widening participation is loans. However it’s still very difficult to part finance a year abroad without Turing. It’s also a fact that because fewer state schools have Dc doing A level MFLs, there are a higher number of privately educated pupils doing the degrees. I would still say the ones who will be most at risk are the “squeezed middle”. No savings and no chance of earning more. Getting holiday jobs isn’t always possible either. Especially for rural Dc.

@TizerorFizz I agree that it is always the squeezed middle that gets hit (I am the squeezed middle myself) but let's not pretend that Brexit hasn't made access to study abroad more difficult.

@pointythings I absolutely didn’t say that. Brexit is a total disaster. The previous system was far better.