Anyone with experience of sports science at hartpury Uni or Nottingham Uni?

[wibdib]

Just that really - ds has narrowed his choices to do sports science at Uni down to Hartpury and Nottingham. Both have strong right credentials 🙄 as he is mad on rugby but they are both very different places with different courses and support, despite nominally being the same.
just wondering if anyone has any experience of either of the unis, their sports courses or how they treat rugby players? Haven’t been able to find much useful info - it’s mostly been done by newly arrived students who don’t have much of a feeling for the places or courses.

Despite loving playing rugby, ds doesn’t drink and is really shy, finds it quite hard to make friends. So wondering if he would be better off going to Hartpury where they say they are small so can be supportive and where there will be smaller numbers of people for him to deal with, or Nottingham, which is bigger and brighter and might provide more people so that he has more of a chance of finding people he likes and where there’s a more ‘normal’’ Uni experience.

so just that really - any insights that he can use to help decide between these two choices would be very much appreciated
Thanks!

Following!

Sports Science at Nottingham University will be far more competitive and science based than the Hartpury course. Do you mean Nottingham Trent?

Because otherwise there is no comparison. If he has three good grades at A level including two hard sciences (required for Notts sport science or at least was a few years ago) then Hartpury would be a waste of his time.

@wibdib how good is he at rugby? Does he have a realistic idea of how high the standard is in university rugby? And would his ideal job be to work in rugby in some capacity afterwards? These will all make a difference to my answer…

FYI Nottingham's pre-eminence in rugby is very recent, up until a couple of years ago they used to get regularly hammered by NTU. There are universities which are both better for Sports Science and better for playing rugby than Nottingham. Just saying.

Sports Science at Nottingham University is very medical based. It's an excellent quality degree but quite different from other places.

Oh yes, the Nottingham course is excellent and as you pointed out earlier it requires 2 hard science A levels whereas most only ask for 1, which tells you it's going to be quite-science based clearly. It will be a better course in general terms, no question.

But the rugby is a crucial element in this, hence my questions. Hartpury is world-renowned for rugby, it will be a much higher standard than Nottingham in playing terms. The rugby community in France and Italy, for example, will be aware of Hartpury from a rugby perspective; they won't know Nottingham University.

Although Nottingham aren't that shabby either - 8th in the BUCS Super League this year, compared to Hartbury who were 5th

99 times out of 100 you would be right, and the BUCS tables/results would be the most salient information. Hartpury rugby is an exception to that rule as the best players do not play for the university team all the time. Rather they play for Hartpury RFC, a club which is in the Rugby Championship, the second tier of club rugby in England and way beyond university standard.

Fully aware of the rugby pedigree of Hartpury @thing47, including their links with Gloucester in the premiership and their local championship team.

Not sure what point you're trying to prove tbh - I didn't say Nottingham were as good as/better than Hartpury, just that they're in the top 10 of university teams.

I inferred from your previous post detailing their respective BUCS league positions that you were saying Nottingham and Hartpury weren't that far apart in standard, when the truth is, they are. I assumed your use of the phrase 'compared to' was drawing a direct comparison between the two.

Many thanks everyone for the input. To answer the questions going through:

@Changeau Definitely Nottingham Uni, not Nottingham Trent. He’s hoping for AAB, Hartpury offered BBB but have lowered it to CCC.

@thing47 he currently plays for an academy team in a second tier club - most of the others in the team play rugby at school to a serious level whereas he hasn’t really played at school for years thanks to covid and the fact it’s a footie school (although it does have an ex England/premiership rugby player, couple of fairly recent Olympic gold medalists and plenty of kids playing at National or international level in a variety of sports; he knows the effort and dedication it takes to get to the top.
He’s only switched to his current club this year as there weren’t enough players to field a team in his previous club - the coach arranged for the last few interested lads to switch to the new club. DS has done well from the start - he’s got a great rugby brain and that ‘certain something that can’t be taught’ (according to others who understand rugby, not me!) so I do think that having a place where he can concentrate on rugby, get some decent coaching would give him the chance he’s never really had going through the age groups.
I’d never heard of hartpury until ds and dh started talking about it as an option. Part of me thinks that Nottingham will be better choice as it has more about it overall but then I jkeep coming back to the fact that normally yes, it should be a no brainer, but that’s true for everything apart from the rugby angle, which makes a big difference - I just don’t know if it’s big enough or worth it enough, if you know what I mean.

Ds would love to end up in rugby somehow - preferably at an elite level rather than as ape teacher - he’s doing the rugby level 2 coaching and refereeing courses this year, and is helping to coach a junior side st his old club too - he’s not the one that shouts loudest on the sidelines (which some people have said meant they don’t think he’s passionate about it enough) - but he is doing these extra courses to get a better deeper understanding of the game and is the one that turns up half an hour before everyone else to practice kicking or stays behind to run drills with friends - which to me is just his own (more introverted!) way of having passion for the game…

he has certainly used the presence of a BUCS rugby team as one of his factors to narrow down the different unis to look at- I guess I’m just worried that he hasn’t really got into the nitty gritty of what the day to day difference will be as a result of the different sports science degrees he could end up with. And while Nottingham were proudly saying the course shared elements with medicine so you could get onto their fast track post grad med course afterwards, that sounds like lots of hard work that he doesn’t need (he’s never expressed an interest in being a doctor before) at the expense of a more varied sports degree or getting more focussed rugby elements instead, if he’d chosen a different course.

Sorry this has been a bit long, trying to answer the questions and trying to work out exactly what I’m trying to ask I guess! Thanks in advance for your help if you make it this far!

Aren't there any other places? I have a horse mad, sports mad dc and there is no way they'd go to Hartpury for sports science. Nottingham sports science is quite niche. There are loads of other places with good sports degrees but I know nothing about rugby! Swansea? Great sports degree and well .Wales!

Has he been to visit the campus's? I would recommend that. DS went to Hartpury for his A Levels, (he was drawn to the football side) it's also a sixth form college, the Uni part is really quite small and focuses almost entirely on sport and animal science. It's also in the middle of the countryside and very much a campus Uni, although Gloucester is only 10 minutes drive (there are some buses too) and Cheltenham around 15/20 minutes. There is nothing in walking distance.
DS absolutely loved it there and considered their sports science course for Uni, but decided to go away from home.
I would definitely say to check it out in person as whilst it's a fab place and has AMAZING facilities for sport, it's really quite a different vibe to normal Uni.

Definitely need to visit the campuses. Hartpury is basically in a field. As I understand it also very horsey so might be a very different mix of students to Nottingham!

I also have a rugby-mad family (and quite a few of my sons' friends are/have been in the Wasps, Sarries and London Irish academies).

I don't know about Hartpury but Nottingham is highly rated for sports. My son's at Durham (he focuses on hockey now) and their biggest sporting rivals are Nottingham, Exeter and Loughborough.

It sounds as if it's a straight choice between Hartpury and Nottingham but, post results, I guess another option could be a uni with a premiership rugby club nearby (even if the uni rugby team isn't one of the strongest), such as Bath, Exeter, Newcastle or Manchester.

I guess Nottingham keeps his options open if he decides on a different career route (or picks up a serious injury) as their grads are sought-after.

Part of me thinks that Nottingham will be better choice as it has more about it overall but then I jkeep coming back to the fact that normally yes, it should be a no brainer, but that’s true for everything apart from the rugby angle, which makes a big difference - I just don’t know if it’s big enough or worth it enough, if you know what I mean.

I think that's a perfect summary of the situation @wibdib , and neatly encapsulates the dilemma!

I guess going to Hartpury puts all his eggs in one basket, so to speak. On the other hand what you say about his level of involvement and his desire to do related courses makes me think he really does have a passion and commitment to rugby. FWIW DS was similar (different sport) and did various coaching/refereeing courses alongside playing. He chose a university that was not particularly highly rated academically but very strong in his particular sport. He now works full-time in that sport and loves his job.

@afromom makes some excellent points about the location and set-up at Hartpury, your DS should definitely visit and see whether it appeals to him personally. I’m guessing if he’s that into his rugby, he’s not going to be looking for a big town where he can party 3 nights a week, but it’s certainly true that Hartpury is rather in the middle of nowhere.

I don’t want to out myself too much, but DH deals with rugby clubs in the UK and Europe on a regular basis. Hartpury is very well known by everyone involved in rugby and has a stellar reputation. No one at, say, La Rochelle or Benetton is going to be aware of Nottingham University in a rugby context; they all know Hartpury. Nottingham is, however, an excellent university in a really great city.

Does he want to hedge his bets or go all out to pursue his passion? There are pros and cons to either approach, but I think in your DS's case, that's what it probably comes down to. HTH.

Is he going to be a professional rugby player? If not then he should go to a better university than Hartpury.

He doesn't need to go to Hartpury to become a professional rugby player.

BUCS Superleague teams will mostly be filled with boys who are tied to the academies of premiership teams

I went to Nottingham - very sporty uni and realistically a huge drinking culture does persist amongst the sports teams, especially the traditionally 'lad' ones like rugby. Nottingham talk a big talk about making sure sports are accessible to all, not focused on drinking etc. but the reality of it is if he's a shy, sober lad he might well struggle.

As a uni in general (can't speak to the specifics of the course), Nottingham is great, huge variety of people and activities, fab city and he will absolutely find his tribe - I adored it. But the sports scene is intense and competitive (and also very expensive, if that's a concern). Sports facilities are fantastic though, can't fault them on that.

There are far more young people studying Sports Science than there are well paid jobs in Sports Science. It is a classic example of a "heart over head" degree course. He would be better off studying something else that might make his job market credentials more competitive. He can still play and be involved in rugby, whatever his degree.

I've just come across this post and I could have written this myself. Can I ask the OP what choice your YP made and how they are settling in? Thanks

He chose Notts in the end - and against my better judgement, chose a catered hall on campus (my vote was for a self catered hall just off campus as I’d been at a different uni but really enjoyed my time in self catered halls and I know I’m a fussy eater - whereas dh didn’t have much luck in self catered halls when he was at uni and friends of his had enjoyed the catered ones.).
As it is, Ds wasn’t that keen on school food and is even less keen on hall food. It’s also been really anti social (not helped by his hall dining room and common room flooding and being out of action for most of the year). They have ‘pantries’ that are supposedly like friendly kitchens you can use when the dining hall isn’t open - but they have a kettle, a dirty microwave and a toaster in, no chairs or table, so people pop in, they don’t stay to chat so they’re not friendly places to hang out, just long soulless corridors where there are a few idiots that enjoy setting off fire alarms to disturb everyone. They are also supposed to be able to book a meal off they are going to be out late at training but because Ds isn’t around here often forgets or doesn’t have time to go elsewhere to pick one up - so end result is he is eating badly and paying a lot extra for food that should need being provided.
even when he is there for meals, he said the nice stuff goes really quickly and they limit the amount people can have - not great for teenage lads that are out doing a lot odd sport or training. So I would definitely advise against catered halls unless you have a good reason to be in them - in many respects I do feel they have need a waste of a year for ds as he hasn’t really got any hall friends (nobody from his course or teams or that he knows from the gym in those halls either). It really feels like they are infantilising the first years by only providing catered accommodation on campus - why not put self catered on campus too?!

i think next year he is hoping to go into a self catered hall, so hoping that he enjoys it much more than this year and makes some good friends - something that hasn’t really happened so far.

i think it sounds like the sports science course is going to undergo major changes next year - seems that one of the big issues that students have had this year is that this first year has been a lot of catching up with a level maths and biology (both of which ds did at a level) so there’s very little new content, particularly odd stuff that people would label as actual ‘sports science’ (think he reckons it’s on average only an hour a week).
Hopefully next year will be better both for those already there and those that join the course. Upside is that if he gets to the end of the course and wants to switch to do medicine, it’s automatic entry acceptance and the course is a 4 year conversion course rather than a 5 year start from scratch course. How long that will be for if they don’t do such a rigorous bio/ psychology /physiology /etc in y1 I don’t know!

i don’t know how he would have got on at Hartpury - the only lad from his old team that went there left by Christmas and didn’t enjoy it but I think that was because he found it too academic - whereas Ds would have been fine with the academic side of things I suspect and I still wonder if the set up would have been friendlier for a shy lad. He hasn’t encountered a massive drinking culture which is good.

hopefully that has covered lots of points - shout if you want more.

Many thanks for such a comprehensive answer. My son is set on going to Hartpury both for the rugby and because it's a smaller university and he's very happy with it being rural and like your son, should not struggle with the academic side of it either. He would not cope with your description of how the halls and meals have been, so I think it is sounding the better choice for him. Also because he will get DSA support, the interaction he's had with the success team at Hartpury has been really encouraging. He's already looking at extra optional modules he might like to do too, although I've suggested not running before he settles in to it. Hope that the rest of the year finishes on a high for your son and that he goes on to do medicine if that is his choice. Many thanks once again for getting back to me🙏