DC going to uni; DC doing an apprenticeship

[universitytips]

Inspired by the "DC with savings ..." thread, this is our current dilemma that we are musing over.

We've been in the position to put some money away for our two DC over the years in their child trust funds. The idea was that this was to cover university costs in lieu of parental top up to the maintenance loan.
The funds have got to about 15K each, so we've achieved roughly what we were aiming for.

Here is the dilemma.

DS has chosen to do a degree apprenticeship. So he's getting a salary, and is still living in the family home and paying (minimal) board. He's bought a car out of his CTF, and put the rest into savings.

DD wants to go away to university. (Her subject doesn't lend itself to an apprenticeship even if she wanted to do one). If she uses her CTF to support herself then she'll have no savings left (and student debt) when she finishes.

We are musing over whether we should look to give her extra money to support herself at university so she has a lump sum to spend as DS did, or if the "fair" thing is to say that we've given them both the same money and it was up to them to spend it how they wanted?

I think maybe look at the 'board' aspect.
One DC is having to fund accommodation for 3 years.
The other is getting accommodation very cheaply for ?4? years.

It isn't up to you to even out their choices entirely though, imo.

Hmm, tough one. I think I'd be inclined to keep it as equal as possible between the two.

Will the CTF fully cover what your parental contributions would have been in lieu of the maintenance loan?

And yes, I agree that you need to ensure that the "board" arrangements are as fair as they can be.

What would your Ds and you have done if he had gone to university and not got an apprenticeship?

We have DC doing and/or looking at both conventional uni and L7 apprenticeship pathways. We knew this was a possibility from when our eldest was around 15 and, more generally, had been accumulating savings to cover some of the potential costs associated with higher education; I say this as it bought us some elapse time to work out our approach and gave us choices; not everyone is in the same position.

We decided that all DC would get the same level of 'total' financial support, irrespective of their chosen pathway, and that our DC would be aware of that and kept informed of how this is clocking up. It was important to us as my DP and their siblings had experienced a very arbitrary parental approach to finances which caused confusion and misunderstanding at various points; we are keen not to repeat history.

We keep a record of financial support we have given/are giving to each DC from when they are 18. Currently the tally of cumulative support is not identical, partly because elder DC are moving beyond the need for assistance and younger ones are yet to reach that point. Ultimately we are looking to make sure it is broadly at the same level for each DC once they have all achieved full financial independence.

Our record is not precise to the nearest pound and pence but sufficiently accurate to give all our DC the confidence we are taking it seriously. Our approach is not the 'best' or 'only' approach; it is right for us; others will have differing opinions and that is the beauty of Mumsnet!

As other posters flag, you are effectively subsidising the live-at-home apprentice DC, possibly quite heavily. If I were in that position, I would simply record a notional 'market rent and utilities' they are saving and make both DC aware of this and how it affects the tally. I hope that helps.

You've paid board for one dc so should do the same for the other.

He would have used his CTF as top-up to his maintenance loan (we earn too much for him to get more than the minimum loan).
Which was always the plan until he chose not to go to university.

I'm sorry I don't understand your point? DS is paying us more board than it costs us to have him live with us. Granted, this is less than it would be if he lived away from the family home, but I think that's not unusual for adult children.

There's

• the marginal cost of him living with you (eg extra food, a bit more electricity)
• or there is the 'full adult share of bills' cost
• or the 'rent a room to a stranger' value
• or 'what would it cost him if living away' value

the "fair" thing is to say that we've given them both the same money and it was up to them to spend it how they wanted?

I would agree with this as a core principle. However, I do think it also makes sense to equalise your DD’s position for not having the opportunity of a degree apprenticeship and look at helping her pay off her student debt. Because that part isn’t really due to choices but rather due to lack of apprenticeship opportunities.

Has your son actually got a degree apprenticeship already? And has he completely dismissed the Uni route.

In my area degree apprenticeships are like hens teeth and many who considered it have had to change to a Uni route!

Interesting approach. And your spreadsheet does it do any adjustment for inflation?

Because hypothetically, £500 given to DC#1 in say 2017 is going to be equivalent to £680 given to DC#3 today (using the RPI)

So to truly give the same level of total financial support, you have to use real terms otherwise the younger children will lose out.

Yes, he's already started his degree apprenticeship.

Yes, @Onnabugeisha, we will adjust for inflation as youngest approaches full financial independence; we have explained that to DC.

We try not to get too hung up with pounds and pence detail. The focus is on having an approach, sticking with that and talking to DC.

Yes, I agree full transparency no matter what parents choose to do in terms of support is absolutely key. Your method sounds very fair and it’s awesome you’re adjusting for inflation. I think I’m a bit too lazy to track to the level you do myself. I tend to be more general like we cover necessities while at Uni, and always have home with us if needed. But like you we are consistent, transparent and ensure it’s communicated to all the DC so they know what to expect.

I think as a parent who earns "too much" to enable their child to claim the full maintenance amount for uni it's up to you to cover this. The fact that you have one dc going down the uni route and another going down the degree apprenticeship route, means that the level you need to support them by is different. The mistake you make was saying that they had £15k each, you need to think of it as just your savings pot to cover higher education. My dd really wants to do an degree apprenticeship btw, as the thought of the student loan terrifies her, but I know that as she is going down a more corporate career path the likelihood of her getting one is remote. With this in mind I would even argue that its probably better to use the two lots of £15k to cover the extra maintenance loan your dd will need, so that she only needs the loan for her uni fee.

We have the same position but saved the money in our account not the children's names. So we will fund one with the expected parental contribution - but won't give the other one the same amount as they are actually better off than us now! I don't charge the working child rent or board when home - as they work away alot. So to me thats us subbing them a bit even though its not directly with university costs.
Both kids had a had a smaller savings account they got to keep.

Ds lived at home for the duration of his apprenticeship. So to even things out a little we are funding dd’s accommodation at uni.

I'm inclined to agree that supporting both dc with their lodging costs and then letting them prioritize the rest of their spending might be the way to go.

But not having to pay commercial rent your ds is saving thousands.

Could your dd attend University while staying at home?

@universitytips have you asked them what they think? Their perception of fairness is likely the most important thing here. They’re young adults and you may be surprised how understanding, grown up and reasonable they’ll be regarding the dilemma with ideas of their own.
We have this situation with DD1 doing a degree apprenticeship and DD2 attending uni (grades permitting) in Sept. We’ve discussed money in detail and what would be fairest with them and also our 3rd DD who’s a way away from uni decisions just yet. They weren’t remotely competitive and gave their own thoughts to the dilemma with a good solution all round.

I don't know that it's necessarily fair to pay for all of your DD's rent etc just because your DS decided to stay at home. For me it would maybe depend on what your DD wants to study, what the local universities are like and whether living at home would be a viable option. If not (or if the opportunity to study away from home is too great to pass up, e.g. Oxbridge) then I'd try to help her with rent/food costs as regardless of the actual cost to you, by taking the route he has your DS has saved himself living costs for the duration of the apprenticeship.

If you have good universities nearby offering her course and are happy for DD to live at home but she chooses to go elsewhere, I'd say that's her choice and as such she should pay for it out of her CTF.

This is an interesting one, and we'll have to talk this over with DS, who is considering a Degree Apprenticeship route in a couple of years from now. DD is at uni and we top-up from minimum to maximum loan. DS is aiming for a line of work that will pay better faster than DD and should be financially "comfortable" much faster (fingers crossed). Then again, he might still decide to go down the university route.

We're also likely to face this. Dd is first year uni, ds is year 12 and adamant he's not going to uni. The difference is that you've already given them both the same amount of money. In our case, their trust funds are only worth about £3k so that's fun money. We top up dd's loan to pay her living expenses (the loan pays accommodation). It occurred to me recently that maybe we ought to be willing to help ds out with the same amount if he needed it - he was saying he wanted to apply for apprenticeships all over the country and I said he wouldn't necessarily be able to afford accommodation on an apprenticeship salary. So in that case, if he got one in London, for example, we should probably help him out with the same amount we're currently giving dd. But I'm not sure how we keep things equal if he lives at home..

Keep it equal yes DD will have to finically invest more over the next few years but using a degree properly will more than recover that over working life

you could top her up say few hundred pounds a month and charge DS no board

@crazycrofter if he gets a local apprenticeship and stays at home you could help him open an ISA and pop his money in there for him to save.