Secondary PGCE

[olympicfan]

Has anyone's DC applied to do one for Sept 23? The tax-free bursaries are very generous this year.

Subject Bursary
Biology £20,000
Chemistry £27,000
Computing £27,000
Design and technology £20,000
English £15,000
Geography £25,000
Languages
(French, German and Spanish only) £25,000
Languages
(all other languages, including ancient languages) £25,000
Maths £27,000
Physics £27,000

DC is wondering whether to do the PGCE via a local SCITT course which is validated by the University of Greenwich/University of Suffolk or do it via the regular route at a top university such as Cambridge or UCL.

Do schools look where the PGCE was obtained or just where the UG was from and the grade?

I don’t think schools care where the PGCE was obtained. DS told me schools would want him as he was a graduate of Cambridge and I pointed out they would want him because he could referee football and play the piano. I was once forced to offer a job to someone because she could umpire netball, not because the HT thought she could teach my subject.

Schools don't care where you got your PGCE from, or what grade it is. There are so few applicants for jobs these days (sometimes none) that if your application is at least coherent you'll get an interview. Teachers teach a lesson on interview, how that goes is more important.

Doesn't matter where the PGCE is from. He should just do it wherever he wants to.

Teaching those subjects - they will only care if you have a pulse and I suspect that’s only a desirable.

Definitely do not care where your pgce is obtained from. Interview days consist of tours with students, teaching a lesson, spending lunch or other time with department staff and then an interview. How you negotiate these is what counts. Or, as has been said, if you apply, chances are you will get an interview because the concept of competition has largely disappeared.

They are generous for a reason sadly. Government is putting lots of money into recruitment because so many teachers are leaving the profession. There's a reason for that. Current situation is similar to pouring water into a bucket with a huge hole at the side. I'd encourage your DC to look at teacher retention rates and consider the reasons for them.

It doesn’t matter at all where the pgce has come from, so choose somewhere that makes sense travel-wise.
is there nothing else they would rather do than teaching?

I would look at where teaching practice might be. Look for a university with decent supportive schools to go to. Hampshire (Southampton) is very good.

Have they considered a route like Teach First - salaried from day one.

Yep agree with others, doesn't matter where the PGCE was done.

Your post starts with details of bursaries - is that the main driver of the idea of doing PGCE?

Also agree with others, getting the job will depend largely on the lesson you teach and how well you do there. Interview important too of course.

Do get him to read up on teacher retention and why it is an issue. What subject will it be?

Wow, those nurseries are amazing. I think they are needed, sadly, yet at the same time it makes no sense that the bursaries for nursing students were taken away.

Reassure your son that the schools will not care one jot where he got his PGCE from, but make sure he knows what he's letting himself in for. There is a reason teachers are leaving in droves.

And despite the amazing bursaries, recruitment numbers for next year (and last year) are well below the government target.

Noone will care where the PGCE is from - the "top" universities make 0 difference in this respect.

If your first degree was at Oxbidge etc that can make a slight difference in an academic school.

However it is mainly bums on seats now... for a reason sadly...

A 'top' university we deal with has an incredibly poorly run pgce in one subject specialism (others are good), so academic reputation is no guide on quality.
I would urge your DC to consider their motivation and be aware that their training will take a large amount of effort on the part of individual teachers at their placement schools.

My eldest DD has a place for the Geography Secondary PGCE with School Direct at our local high school and the local university.

@dangermousesfriend
Nursing doesn’t have a lack of applicants.
Teachers do another degree first and this golden hello is for becoming a teacher when the grad could do many more jobs. Nursing is not quite the same. Nurses could always do a Stem degree and become a teacher to get the golden hello.

Schools don't care where you did your PGCE in general, but the IOE at UCL is very respected.

I think it does depend a bit where your DS wants his career to go. I have recently been starting to think the uni where I did my PGCE (a well known one which lots of mumsnetters would rate) gives better training on some things than the local SCITT. They also ensured we all good a good amount of KS5 experience, and there was a chance to do a week's placement at a special school or a PRU.

I would say if he just wants to be a classroom teacher, then SCITT is fine and may be a bit easier to get through. If he's got aspirations towards leadership etc, then a uni based PGCE will be better.

I know some people will disagree, and tbf this is based solely on my experience of one PGCE, and the local SCITT course. Other SCITT courses may be better!

Nurses should get a bursary, but these bursaries are so high because recruitment targets have been missed year on year, and there aren't enough teachers of those subjects to fill all the existing vaccancies!

Does DC want to teach? The PGCE is a tough year.
Teaching is great though, I'm 20 years in and I love it!

Yes, they are generous. That’s enough to send anyone with any sense running away.

About 20 years ago, the bursaries stopped, there were enough entrants to the profession without them. Now we need to pay people a lot of money.

But, back to your question. A PGCE (check it includes QTS) in any of those subjects will get him an interview, where there is a good chance he’ll be one of only two or three candidates. The university won’t make a huge difference. Many schools will offer a half decent trainee a job while they are still training.

Is he certain he wants to teach? (Teacher of 25 years, PGCE from Cambridge in case you wondered.)

A quicker way and imo, it to do the C and G 7307 cert and then convert to the pgce, not sure if you still get bursay, if you do this route you learn better practical skills and dodge a lot of nonsense on the pgce course. greenwich was poor teaching when i was there, i did the conversion course and couldnt wait to leave and finish it, tutors totally disinterested in students etc.

The PGCE at my Russell Group uni does not actually offer the best placements. The post 1992 uni in the same town already had the best local placements sewn up. Similarly I know someone who did their PGCE at another well known uni and had to do one of their placements at a school that Needs Improvement, which was a stressful experience compared to the placements of students at better schools.

I would just go for the best training

DS did a SCITT. He already had a maths degree from a top uni and had had enough of uni, liked the idea of training on the job. He applied to SCITTs within travelling distance and really got the pick. He trained at an outstanding school and they offered him a job.
It's true that it doesn't matter where your PGCE is from. It doesn't even matter where your subject degree is from. (Or even if you have one).
There is still a bit of theory attached to scitt training but very limited. Be aware that some schemes are much larger than others. DS trained in a teaching academy with many other students. Some scitts take only one or rwo.

I know teaching is on it's knees and badly paid. DS works incredibly long hours. I was dubious about his career choice because I knew all that. However he absolutely loves his job, still buzzes about work 5 years on. So much more than his sibling who works half the hours and is paid twice as much in a different field.

Thank you for all your comments. I am a teacher (not secondary) and taught for 30 years so my knowledge about PGCEs is 30+ years out of date. I did not realise recruitment was so bad in secondaries, for my primary we have at least 10 good applications per post.

DC has volunteered/worked in schools so knows what they would be getting them self into. One experience shocked them with the behaviour and lack of learning going on.

SCITT seems the best way to go. They are planning a post-university gap year, so career thoughts might change.

SCITT seems the best way to go. They are planning a post-university gap year, so career thoughts might change.

Fee-funded SCITT is being scrapped as a training route from Sept 2024.

schoolsweek.co.uk/teacher-training-dfe-to-scrap-school-direct-fee-funded-route/