Uni admissions questions

[shopsalot]

DS has the opportunity of going to a private school for 6th form. A selective private school with decent results. He is currently at local state secondary and predicted 8s/9s for GCSEs. The 6th form linked to the state school is pretty normal 'college' type 6th form so no real structure around the day - just turn up for your lessons. Private school has a lot of structure and other stuff going on (mentoring the younger year groups, becoming a prefect, cafe on site etc).
DS is thinking of staying at the local school, partly because he has his eye on the top universities and thinks he'll have a better chance on getting in from a state school. I think we should support his grades by picking the more structured and more individual attention 6th form.
I know some universities give contextual offers (rightly so) to those in certain post codes and certain schools - this won't apply to us. The 6th form at the state school is not selective and gets average results (I think below national average for A levels) but I would expect DS to work and get good grades - but would they be good enough.
So my questions are - do university admissions have a positive bias towards state schools? Has anyone moved at 6th form and regretted it or other way round?

It's a tricky one. A-levels van be quite a jump from GCSEs, even for pupils who achieved 8/9s at GCSE.

Could you have a look at the A-level results at the state sixth form to see if any students do regularly achieve A stars in the A-level subjects your DS is interested in? If so, it's perfectly possible your DS will do the same. But if the top results are Bs, for instance, that would suggest that the teachers are not focusing efforts on those capable of higher grades.

Grades are contextualised against the average performance at the school(s) they were taken at. So your DS is right that if he achieves As and A stars at the non-selective school, he will receive a higher contextual score.

Having said this, three A stars from an independent is still going to allow him to apply for unis he would not be able to apply for with three As from a state school. Does he know what he wants to study?

Thanks for your reply @fairwind - exactly what I was thinking about the jump to A levels, particularly in Maths. I need a bit more info on grades. The state 6th form publish on their website the % getting Bs and above but not specifically A stars. He's not sure yet what we wants to study at uni but A level choices are Maths, FM then either Physics or Chemistry and Economics. Keeping options open for studying Economics or a science degree.

Do you know if A level results are published somewhere or do I need to ask the school?

Where will he feel happiest and most supported? He is likely to do better at that place.

Having said this, three A stars from an independent is still going to allow him to apply for unis he would not be able to apply for with three As from a state school.

I don't think this statement is true. There will be advantages in the private school, experience and help in applying to Oxbridge etc, help and practice with interviews but 3x A star from a state school is seen as harder to get, therefore a bit better than 3x A star at an independent school.

MatildaJayne - what I meant was, three As from a school where the vast majority achieve Cs etc will indeed be harder to achieve than in a school where most get As. But, for STEM subjects and Economics at the most competitive unis, they need at least two A stars (preferably three) to even consider applying in the first place. So if they 'only' have As, it won't be enough, regardless of contextualisation.

Unless the school sixth form is a particularly poor performing or deprived one there is no preferential treatment given by unis. Indeed even if it is poor performing lots of unis won't include that in their assessment of contextual admissions.

So he can choose either with no detriment.

I would suggest though that a) the school seems to be doing a good job if he's likely to come out with 8s and 9s, and b) a less rigid structure is a good halfway house between school and uni. No point only being able to only produce your best work when chivvied on by teachers, then not knowing how to self-motivate at uni and crashing out having failed the first year.

So my questions are - do university admissions have a positive bias towards state schools?

Hmmm, it depends on the university and the degree course.

In my department, we still interview, and I'd expect someone who's had their education bought for them to do better all round than someone coming from a non-selective state school.

So you'd need to work out whether the structure and tendency to spoon-feeding of fee-paying schools will give the much better results that a university might expect.

I remember working with the Sutton Trust on summer enrichment sessions about a decade ago. Their liaison officer said that Sutton Trust research reckoned on socio-economic advantage (ie not raw ability or intelligence) added about a grade to each A Level result. So will paying fees do this for your DS? And will the structured nature of the paid-for school compensate for him being less well-prepared for the independence of university?

In my experience they definitely do. Check Bristol University's list. Our really leafy comp is on there!

I'm not saying the DS can't get A stars at the non-selective school, by the way! I've no idea. But just worth checking with the school - eg. what does 'x% B and above' actually mean? If pupils are regularly achieving A stars, why not publish that?

Private school kids are totally prepared for the independence of uni! Particularly if they've boarded when they care less about having swanky en suite rooms!

Is that your experience teaching them at university @Plirtle ?

My eldest son had similar dilemma two years ago - whether to stay at his bog standard comp for 6th form or take up a place at a highly selective grammar. He wanted to apply to Oxbridge so decided to stay on at the comp but he subscribed to Seneca Learning to make sure he covered the A star material (as we weren’t convinced school taught it all). Anyway, all worked out for him - he got the Oxbridge offer and all A stars (thank you Seneca) and is now loving his first year (coxing bumps today!).

Dilemma was three years ago, obvs. Good luck to your DS!

No thanks to the teachers at his bog standard comp - did they not contribute anything towards his A stars?

@titchy as much as I’d like to credit the teachers for the A stars, I absolutely can’t. He had three maths teachers over the course of the A-level and the school was downgraded to ‘inadequate’ last year and had to be taken over by a MAT to avoid closure! My DS only one to get A stars in Maths and Economics (even though others had also got grade 9s at GCSE) and that was because he used Seneca (and worked bloody hard obvs!)

Oh, and his economics teacher left at the end of his Y12 and was replaced by a 22 year old who had literally just graduated and was fresh out of university (with no teaching experience). She was great but totally out of her depth (but now being trained up by the MAT so hopefully will thrive).

No, anecdotal. Dd and her friends aren't the ones failing to cope with living away from their parents.