Biomechanical Engineering?

[bretonian]

My son is in year 11, and considering A Levels in Maths, Further Maths (probably), Physics, and either Chemistry or Biology or Economics. His target GCSE grades are mostly 9's, so he is at the academic end of the scale. He is interested in doing Biomechanical engineering in future though he needs to keep options open as it is too early for him to be sure, and finance/computing are also things he has mentioned as possible future options. Questions are:

1. Although some unis do biomechanical engineering BSc my instinct is that it would be wiser to do a more generic mechanical or general engineering degree, then specialise for a MSc. Agree?

1. Would any other more general BSc options, such as maths or physics, also lead smoothly to a biomechanical engineering masters?

1. When we search for biomechanical engineering, biomedical engineering often comes up - are they the same or different?

1. How do we find out which universities have the strongest biomechanical engineering specialisms? - I can find general and mechanical engineering rankings, but not the bio specialisms.

1. Is further maths a necessity for the most competitive engineering courses?

6.Would he definitely need 2 science A levels, and, if so, would biology be better than chemistry for biomechanical engineering?

@bretonian
Aa far as I can tell, this is a sub set of mechanical engineering. So essentially a bit niche for 3/4 years. I haven’t looked but is there a Chartered Engineer status for this branch of engineering? Or are chartered engineers not working in this field? If they are, are they mechanical engineers?

A great place for info on everything engineering is the Engineering Council. engc.org.uk. They might be of help if you contact them. However don’t narrow study down too much. Changes of plan can and do happen when dc are exposed to modules at university.

If he’s a bright DC go down the MEng Mechanical Engineering route. Everyone else will (Or biomedical if he changes his mind after looking at courses). Look at UCL, Imperial and other high ranking university courses that might have modules of interest.

As you say there might be a stand alone masters but it’s going to cost more then the integrated masters. Many working engineers don’t do separate masters these days. But you need an integrated masters or stand alone to get to CEng in a reasonable amount of time.

Imperial suggest subjects which will be great for anywhere and he just needs to choose his third or fourth from what he’s suggested. It’s what Imperial suggest. I would definitely include FM. So FM, P and M are non negotiable for the best courses.

Look at the Complete University Guide for Mechanical Engineering and drill down into modules. I do think biomedical engineering is different but he needs to read up on the differences. Does biomedical appeal? It’s more medical I think - less mechanical?!

Thanks TizerorFizz. I didn"t know that an integrated masters was cheaper than an MSc, so that's helpful.

Imperial definitely have a biomechanical engineering specialism, but I know how competitive it is to get in there for engineering. Although he is bright, and will probably apply, he is laid back and perhaps not fiercely determined enough to do the necessaries. We'll see though.

Hi. Do Imperial actually offer a first degree in biomechanical engineering. I did not see it with a quick Google.

DD took an intercalated degree there in biomedical engineering and focussed on biomechanics. Indeed I think all the courses she took were open to post grad students perhaps taking a more specialised biomechanics Masters. (Lots of Europeans)

It was really interesting. A lot is happening in the field.

When applying she looked at other places offering biomedical engineering intercalation but they seemed more focussed on imaging. Imperial has a huge range of nano, biochemical, etc options.

I would be tempted to look through the Imperial options within their biomedical engineering degree then see the sort of courses he might want to take and then look at who else offers degrees with similar courses.

I am not sure about the need for Chartered status. DD gets sent information about some very attractive job opportunities via the Imperial careers office.

@bretonian
Well Imperial is very very competitive. So he must look at other universities. He needs to decide which branch of engineering though. Biomechanical is niche. Mechanical is the obvious stepping stone.

All engineers who are not medics (the DD above did a medical degree so not solely an engineer as others who only study engineering are) should aim to be chartered. Engineeing jobs start as “graduate engineers” and they follow a training programme and do suitable work to get chartered. It will lead to a higher salary as an engineer. In many areas of engineering this matters. If he wants to start as a medic and get another degree on the way - good luck - it’s absolutely not necessary.

He needs a bunch of A stars for Imperial. It’s absolutely not the only place to look at. However he needs to know more about engineering and not just a sub set of engineering that’s not really a 4 year course. Don’t narrow down too early. Therefore a general course like mechanical is a standard degree and offered very widely. No MEng holder is disadvantaged in job applications. The uk has many great courses and don’t discount former polytechnics if his academics are not the highest. They produce great practical engineers. So look at a variety of courses that are likely to be within his academic reach.

That is not what I was saying.

DD was within the engineering faculty and taking normal third year courses with engineering coursemates, so I thought I had a reasonable contribution to make.

I was not saying ... go to Imperial. I was saying that it appears to be one of the broadest Biomedical engineering degrees out there, so look at what is available, and decide what sort of area interests him most. Then look for that same content in other degrees, regardless of what they are called. For example is he interested in robotics or imaging or nano.... And perhaps decide whether he is more engineering or more bio...

(Sorry OP, I hope my contribution was helpful. There are a few posters that work in the area, so at least I bumped the thread, even if my information was considered inaccurate. And the job adverts DD is circulated are as a result of her engineering degree.)

Thanks for all the comments. Needmoresleep, I was referring to the Imperial MSc, which shows they have the specialism, so their engineering BSc's are likely to have relevant modules. We haven't got as far as looking at all the flavours of BSc yet - he's only year 11 so current focus is on trying to work out whether he needs a second science. The MSc seems to require either engineering, physics or applied maths BSc, (suggesting biology/chemistry A Level is unecessary). We need to look at a few more unis though to see if that's a consistent story.

He's definitely capable of getting the grades for Imperial, but I know they need to do more than that to make their application stand out, so he needs to keep options open.

As pp said, MEng is the standard route these days for academic young people.

My dd is a recent graduate, working towards becoming chartered. (She loves working as an engineer btw ☺️) It's not absolutely necessary, but opens up more possibilities for them. Her employer is supporting her with it.

Further maths is not required because some schools/colleges don't offer it. My dd did fm and she said some of the same material was covered in the first year. At her uni, all the engineers were given maths tests when they arrived and some students had extra catch up lessons.

DD was, effectively, thrown into the third year of the integrated MSc in Biomedical Engineering and opted for the more bio-mechanical options. She did her major piece of group coursework with four or five West Europeans Masters students who could well have been taking the course you have seen, and who seemed to have Engineering type backgrounds. (She was concerned because their engineering skills were better, but then discovered they were delighted to have a medic in their group, because she knew a lot more about anatomy, an early lesson in the advantages of working in a diverse group with complementary skills.) Quite a lot of courses being available as options for people on different degrees, so plenty of overlap. There was also a lot of research going on, which made it feel quite cutting edge. (Later DD spent her two month elective in one of Imperials research labs, which again was cool.)

Being comfortable with maths and some programming really important. So much now seems to boil down to the ability to handle data,. It was surprising how often DD would phone her brother who studies, essentially, economic statistics to ask advice on data sets. DD was only required to have maths A level, but I see that the integrated MSc looks for maths and physics. (As it was she also had physics and electronics, both of which were useful, though the electronics was essentially covered in the pre-sessional course they gave intercalators.) I would suggest double maths and physics if he is aiming for a competitive course. (In part because most of them are likely to have general first and second years with the options coming in third or fourth years, and they will be looking for strong mathematicians. There also seemed to be a lot of biochemical stuff going on, so chemistry would be a good if he is up to a fourth A level.

A lot of Universities will offer four year degree which include a Masters. This means that you only get charged UG fees for the final year, and you are eligible for student finance for the whole course. The problem comes if you want to switch Universities for Masters, either to "trade up" or to study a more specialist area not available at your first University. Funding for Masters is a lot more difficult to obtain and some of the fees charged, especially at Imperial, are eyewatering. (£34,500 for the Masters in Management.)

And do look at a few universities. For the intercalation courses DD was surprised how much course content varied.

(DD was torn between bio-med engineering and medicine when she was applying, and opted for medicine with an intercalation. She still has the option of switching, perhaps for a PhD, though enjoys medicine so thinks she made the right choice.)

Honestly! We are talking about a Dc doing engineering with A levels straight from school. Everyone bar a tiny few do this route.

Keep maths and physics and FM is useful. Very. Some universities on MEng courses won’t have huge numbers without it but it’s not vital. The elite universities do not mention it as required, but students have it. Therefore just choose a 4th if that’s what the school suggest. It’s not necessary though and FM isn’t necessary everywhere.

DH employed engineers for 50 years. People who have one Dc doing engineering as part of another degree and are not yet working at anything are not the best advisors. They know what their Dc did, but not anyone else in other universities. You also really don’t need to be in an elite university to succeed. The demand for engineers is huge.

Companies who have graduate programmes for engineers have to have approved training for them to achieve chartered status. It’s not random. It takes way longer with a BEng. Earnings tend to be lower if BEng holder only goes for Incorporated Engineer status. There’s a heirarchy in engineering as you might expect. CEng is fast track. An earlier passport to better jobs.

Correction: 40 years!

Hello, OP -

Former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor here. @TizerorFizz and @Needmoresleep are both highly reliable posters with lots of good advice even if occasionally it clashes.

I am writing with a couple of pragmatic thoughts. Firstly, IMO the FM is really important. Requiring FM is difficult because in spite of all promises not everyone can access it. However if it is known (and we do know) that a pupil has access but did not take FM, many programmes will count that against the applicant. Also, most applicants to the strong Mech Eng programmes will have FM and the pace of the course will cater to them

Secondly, I agree that Biomechanical Eng is relatively specialised. I tend to think the best future-proof training will likely involve three years of Mech Eng followed by a specialism if desired, Biomechanical or otherwise. Still, for a crack at Imperial I would bend this principle. I would keep in mind the importance of Chartered status for UK Engineers. Good luck to your DS

Chartered status from a uk institution is recognised in a huge number of countries. It’s highly desirable everywhere. We are world leaders in engineering! So definitely worth getting the MEng and getting a grad engineer status job with approved training for becoming chartered. You would not want a less then fully qualified doctor to
open you up. You don’t want a partially qualified engineer designing a bridge!

He's definitely capable of getting the grades for Imperial, but I know they need to do more than that to make their application stand out, so he needs to keep options open.

My dc is at Imperial and I think they put a lot of emphasis on the interview/potential as almost everyone has excellent grades.

Imperial is the standout choice if your DS wants to eventually specialise in this area. As biomechanical engineering applies the principles of mechanical engineering and materials science to the study of biomedical systems, the UK does not really have strength in depth in interdisciplinary engineering. There is a significant gap between Imperial and the rest.

The second option would be UCL. However, Oxford and Cambridge are also worthy contenders. Nottingham, Sheffield and Aberdeen are suggestions for insurance choices.

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Thanks all, I found this league table, which shows Leeds may be a contender too. They seem to have a biomedical degree, which sounds like it's along the right lines: www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/medical-technology-and-bioengineering

As I said upthread, he needs to look closely at course content. DD discovered that many so called Biomedical Engineering courses, or at least the ones available to intercalators, were very focussed on imaging. The Imperial course in contrast, gave a much broader range of options.

my DC did the Mechanical Engineering degree at Leeds (MEng). Years 1 & 2 are general mechanical engineering then for years 3 & 4, they can continue with this or choose to specialise in Medical Engineering, Aerospace Engineering or Automotive Engineering.

@bretonian @hellsbells99 Yes. That’s the point. A MEng course in mechanical allows for options in y3 and y4. It’s all very well looking for a degree part way through another degree when you know what you want and it complements your other study, but few engineers starting from scratch need to specialise so early. They need the 2 years of core studies to get the the knowledge to make choices later. They might also end up with a very different perspective after the first two years as well. Something else excites them. Even not working in engineering at all!!

There are great universities for mechanical engineering. Look at the options the top 10 for mechanical offer. You do not have to aim for the top 3 to be a successful engineer.