Year abroad for MFL - work or university?

[Sofasurfing]

Does anyone have DC doing MFL who would be able to advise? Many unis give the option of spending your third year abroad either working or attending a partner university in the country/countries concerned. Which is preferable do you think? I'd have thought work experience rather than uni study but that's just my gut instinct.

Some unis allow you to mix it up.

My DD learns Spanish and Italian at a Cambridge college and has spent 6 months in South America as a volunteer teaching English (and Italian apparently) to local children and adults. I suppose you could call it work experience although it was voluntary and therefore unpaid.

She returned from that in December and has now gone to spend 6 months in Italy, where she is at a university and thus not working.

What a lovely year your DD must be having @Topseyt123. My DC has heard a few negative stories about studying at overseas unis (apparently they are far more intense than British students are used to - but seeing as your DD is at Cambridge that probably won't apply in her case!)

I did MFL and I would say work! If you go to a university the risk is you will either hang around with all the international students or be lonely as it's hard to integrate.

I taught English in a school for one placement and did an internship in a software company (that I found myself) over the summer. I had no choice but to integrate with (in my case) French people and made much more progress as a result.

Work so I gain extra skills and get to practice the language with natives.

@Sofasurfing
Work will be finding it yourself. So who you know is a way in. If you don’t know anyone it’s very competitive. Lots of the nationals in your target country want the placements too.

Contrary to what you think about university life abroad. It’s not that hard. The assignments you do are for your university. Not the one abroad. However it’s an amazing opportunity to learn something new and you will
make friends.

University all the way. Assuming the course is integrated with the French students. Much more immersion than teaching English would be.

I did law with French and studied French law in my year abroad. We did 3 first year and 3 second year subjects mixed with the French students and had to cope in lectures/seminars.

Meant to add: universities are particular about quality of work. There is also competition to get to the best partner universities. Some are world class, others are not. DD was in Italy for 5 months and it’s not hard at all!! It’s more of steep
learning curve finding accommodation and getting to lectures. Once you get into it, it’s not overly demanding. More demanding to do your research for your uk university.

The British Council do teaching placements. DD did two top universities abroad snd did work experience in vacations here. Has the career she wanted and work abroad would have made no difference at all. Targeted work and volunteering here was better. We didn’t have contacts for her to use. A few did. Especially the ones with family in the target countries. Most of DDs friends went to universities though and were perfectly ok. Dd still in touch with her friends from abroad. She travelled and saw great places and it’s a great experience.

That's reassuring @TizerorFizz, namely that it's not that hard at universities abroad. From what you say, a work placement will be very difficult as we do not have any contacts or family in either of DC's two target language countries.

More demanding to do your research for your uk university.
What do you mean by this? Are you meant to study at a foreign uni AND conduct a research project for home uni too? DC not mentioned that to us!

@randomsabreuse I don't know whether DC would be integrated with native students - will ask!

There are pros and cons to both. I studied abroad in mine (rather a long time ago) and loved it, but I now have students who have done both and all have different opinions.

Does DD have an EU passport? Our students used to do some great work placements, but many of the employers won't/can't sponsor visas so that's now a lot more difficult. If she can find a suitable placement, I think it's nice to have some "professional" work experience before graduation. British Council is still fine in terms of visas, and it's a great option for students considering teaching in the future.

Being an exchange student is a once in a lifetime opportunity. She could always get a job abroad after graduating, but this is the only chance to experience (undergraduate) classes somewhere else. Unis in each country operate quite differently and most students find it a very interesting cultural exchange.

Your DD will need to ask her UK university how it will be assessed as everywhere does it differently. Some convert foreign grades into UK grades, others have the year abroad as pass/fail, and others, like @TizerorFizz says, set their own assignments.

For both British Council and uni, some students fully integrate themselves with the locals, while others only seem to talk with other Brits (and maybe the occasional Australian!) A lot of it is down to how much effort the students put in.

Going back many years (!) I studied two European languages and split my year abroad between working in one country and studying in the other.

They each have their advantages. I preferred my time working as I fully immersed myself in the language and made lots of friendships with native speakers, plus the work experience was something I could meaningfully refer to on my CV. I was an intern and whilst accommodation was provided, the role only paid a basic stipend and living costs were very high (living in a holiday resort) so I wasn't really earning anything. If there are internship schemes still existing post-Brexit that provide accommodation (often advertised via the university) then this can be a great option. I wouldn't fancy trying to sort my own accommodation somewhere these days though as short term rentals for foreign students can be very expensive.

My experience studying was also really positive, although there wasn't a huge opportunity to make friendships with local students and a risk you might end up hanging around with other English-speaking students. I set up my own language exchanges to meet local students who wanted to learn English.

Also worth a mention that some countries offer private "language schools" - these can be intensive language courses for a month or two although are privately funded. I studied at a language school in Italy with accommodation provided and it was a great way to refresh my Italian before returning to university. Good luck!

Would agree that both options will give a different experience – ideally you’d want both.

Back in the day, my uni offered both – I had 6 months (a long semester in 2nd year) at a uni abroad studying 2 or 3 modules on their equivalent course. Lived in the French halls of residence on campus (all sorted by my uni). It was quite hard work, lecturers (quite rightly) didn’t make any allowances for the English student, writing assignments / preparing presentations took longer to prepare etc (contrary to what a pp says, the assignments were for the French uni and marked by the French uni - my English uni standardised the marks) and it wasn’t as easy to mix. Really enjoyed the experience though. It's worth checking what exactly a placement at a uni abroad entails and how work there counts towards the home degree. I imagine they're all different.

3rd year was a year in industry abroad – and it was a full year – think I did 46 weeks. For me, that was much better for my language skills – nowhere to hide, pushing you out of your comfort zone. The staff that I worked with were all very patient, friendly, really tried to include me. My fluency came on so much better in a work environment and I think the experience definitely enhanced my CV when I went on to apply for post-uni jobs.

My uni found the placement for me, but I had to find my own accommodation. Lived in a flat (kind of a HMO) with French students (mix of 2nd / 3rd years) who didn’t really mix with each other and all went home at weekends. That was OK as I’d made friends at work (and with a few other English people who I’ve bumped into in the city centre). Again, it depends on the quality of the placement as to how valuable it will be.

If your dc needs to learn to speak the language (usually the hardest part, reading and understanding spoken language being easier): work. Lots of interactions in the language, lots of repetition, improves listening skills. Also, it's work experience.

Personal preference but they must make sure to be around french people and speak french. Dont go to work and then be the english teacher. Join a french zumba class or french book group or running group. Anything thst means they dont spesk english all day.

My DD is starting Modern Languages this Oct. I was wondering if post Brexit students (with only UK passports) were able to work overseas in their 3rd Year. She is currently an au pair in France with an au pair visa but it doesn't seem easy to get work unless you have the right to live / work in the EU. May mean more have to take the Uni study option?

Would be interested to hear from those whose DC have gone away in 2021 or 2022

If only our government had a young person mobility visa arrangement with the EU....

DS is facing the same study/work conundrum for his year abroad next year.... made all the more complicated by him studying Russian!

I did Uni in France but found that the non-French natives banded together and so we socialised in English a lot as that was the most common language across us all (the non-French non-English were generally more proficient in English than French so defaulted to that).

If I had my time again I’d probably get a job, but it would have been hard as my french probably wasn’t good enough at the start .. it just didn’t improve dramatically by being at Uni in the way it would it had worked / been an au pair / language assistant in a school.

I had a great time though, it just wasn’t the best way to improve my language skills.

(and was pre Brexit so no visa concerns)

Juja let's hope universities are putting pressure on the government to pursue some kind of visa for MFL students to more easily work in the EU.

DD has friends due to go abroad for a mix of study and work this coming year and those without EU passports are struggling to find job opportunities to apply to.

@fortyfifty @Sofasurfing
I think the big issue is whether jobs that are good enough, or internships, are actually available. Universities simply do not have them lined up for students.

My DD did do two large assignments for her university, one in each language/country and she did take the exams at the end of her chosen modules at the universities abroad. They then certified she had completed the courses. However I believe her marks were based on the work required by her British university. So always check what’s required.

The beauty of studying at a university is that you can, usually, make friends readily but they might be international. However it really will depend on the university. Lots of Europe has unis that serve a local population . Students live at home. They already have friends. Lots don’t have accommodation for exchange students either. You find it yourself. Others that attract students from a wide area may well have accommodation. DD got an amazing room in a hall in Geneva and made wonderful friends. In Bologna you find your own accommodation and there are loads of international students so accommodation is widely advertised. It’s an enormous university but you have an Italian experience . No two experiences are the same.

The other advantage of a university is picking up subjects you haven’t studied before. History of Art, translation and another language were what DD did. It’s a great way to enhance your learning and understanding of a country. There’s enough language learning at a university to ensure greater fluency. Not all jobs will be better for the cv. DD needed specific experience for her career and it was available here. So studying abroad made more sense.

A few of DDs friends were lonely as language assistants in remote schools. So choose according to what you can facilitate and whether you want a pool of young people around you. If you prefer to stay with a family, that option is often there too but remember the young will all be at university!

My DD was studying 3 languages and went to uni in one country but worked in the other two (cut short by covid). She said that uni in Germany was much harder than UK and was expected to complete a lot of modules. She was put in with other foreign students so all social contact was in English.

TizerorFizz. No, it's specifically visa issues. Jobs that were previously available for UK students to apply for are advertised for EU passport holders only.

@fortyfifty yes continued pressure required by all of us so all our young <26 years old - whether MFL students or not - have the opportunity to spend up to 24 months working overseas - we have this reciprocal arrangement with Canada, NZ, USA, US, South Korea and a few smaller countries but not the EU. Bonkers ...

I would definitely go for uni. I studied Law and a language back in the day and like previous posters we had to do all the same work as all the first year students and hold our own in tutorials and so on which was excellent not only for language skills but also for making friends and mixing.

The only difference was that we only had to pass the various modules to prove to the UK uno we'd been working but the first year native language students had grades allocated.

Still the best year ever of my studies. Went back after graduation to do a Masters and then ended up lecturing at the same uni in English Law. Would have stayed to do post doc stuff if it wasn't for needing a proper job!

It's certainly less hassle post Brexit to do Uni for a year abroad (provided your UK uni has the Turing funding or similar) than it is to get a job, a placement or work experience if you haven't got an EU passport.

Germany for example has special visa rules for UK students wanting to come and study. The Goethe Institut and the DAAD have details of how to go about applying

@RSintes Thank you - sounds like sensible advice. DD has just passed her C1 exams in her primary language while being an au pair before going up to Uni so will be able to spend her 3rd year in her ab initio language country. Sounds as though ensuring the Uni she applies to will have good courses and she will be taught alongside Native speakers is important to maximise the benefit.

A friends's DC had a great experience at a German Uni last year doing all teaching and exams in German at a high level.

My niece did Spanish and was in Madrid in a school teaching English during her year abroad (this was before Brexit). She ended up having to find a tutor as she was speaking English during the day at the school then was living in a household with other English speakers and her Spanish just didn't come on as she hoped. That worked but it added to the general costs. The ones in her year who were at universities came out with much better language skills that year though she spent the next summer in Costa Rica (Scottish uni, lots of holidays as the language made it a 5 year course) and her Spanish was fluent by the end of the degree.

My ds is going to universities, rather than working, for both his MFL languages. As others have said up thread, Europe is now nigh on impossible to work in unless you have an EU passport and his other country, Japan, is difficult with work visas for students, so all the students from his UK uni go to universities in Japan rather than work. His UK university has exchange schemes with lots of universities abroad and he got his first choice for both Germany and Japan. In Germany he will be taught in German and do exams in German, not sure what the situation is in Japan. He heads off to Germany in October, Japan in March 24.