Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Oxbridge 2024 Entry

988 replies

Lightsabre · 28/02/2023 13:52

Thought I'd start a thread for parents of dc considering Oxbridge applications for entry in Oct 2024 (I don't think there's a current one)? Past threads have been so informative and supportive and hopefully this thread will offer that too. Please feel free to add to the thread if your dc have recently had experience of the process, good, bad or ugly!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Classicsrock · 05/07/2023 01:50

And inevitably it's somewhere that will attract occasional posters with some sort of axe to grind (or merely late night bored).

sorry to read this from you @ErrolTheDragon - your insight on this board is great. I am not late night bored - just in a different time zone!

I have lurked on HE thread for several years - and my point about over-invested parents is correct. Only 19% of students achieve their predicted grades. Fact. There’s not enough realism and far too many pushy parents

Sushialways · 05/07/2023 02:21

Classicsrock · 05/07/2023 01:34

“So if I’ve got this right, I’m being labelled as ‘over invested’ by someone posting at 2am”

Here I am @10ppicnmix posting late again. You are clearly struck by my early hours’ posts (2am yesterday and again now - shock, horror - at 1.30). You are implicitly suggesting readers of this thread should cast judgement on me due to late posts (do I have MH issues? A drinker?). Nope, I am simply in a different time zone to you. That’s it. Cheap shot on your part

i too do not live in Uk but follow this HE board. Lost count of the number of posters who try to rubbish me and slur my character coz I post at non-UK working hours. Posting in middle of UK night does not invalidate my opinion or experience. I am not a drunk or druggie and resent the slurs!

10ppicnmix · 05/07/2023 08:18

@Classicsrock your post was nowhere near being in the spirit of this thread. If you are genuinely a ‘long time lurker’ on MN you will already know that if you come onto any thread specifically to cast aspersions about existing posters your arse will be handed to you on a plate. If you want a fight club, post in AIBU.

What were you hoping to achieve with your post? It was neither helpful, nor insightful. Most of us on this thread are trying to help our DC navigate a complex and tricky process which is not familiar to all. Asking normal questions does not make posters ‘overly invested’. I assume that previously ‘over-invested’ parents asking questions on previous years Oxbridge threads have also been of assistance to you as a ‘long time lurker’ so why come onto this thread to criticise parents for openly doing what you benefited in prior years from? Not all schools are equal in their ability to support students who wish to apply to Oxbridge. Maybe this thread is helping some of those students or parents? I for one have been very grateful for those posters who have been through the process in prior years sharing the benefit of their experience and wisdom on this thread. It is my DD’s choice to apply not mine. And things have changed massively since I applied/went to Uni. Maybe there are some posters whose DC realistically stand little or no chance of securing a place at Oxbridge, and that’s ok for them to take part too. You do not know who here has DC who will achieve their predicted grades and schools don’t generally encourage Oxbridge applications if they think it is not right for the student either in terms of their chance of securing a place or their enjoyment of their time there. However, my experience (of not just my DD’s school) is that the process of getting to a predicted A-level grade is very data driven and quite complex in itself. Students miss grades across the board (not just Oxbridge applicants) for a variety of reasons, one poor soul in this year’s cohort at DD’s School during the exam period ended up in intensive care after contracting an illness. I’m sure they will form part of the ‘didn’t make the predicted grades’ group, but that doesn’t make either the school wrong or their parents ‘overly invested’ or ‘overly ambitious’ for their child.

Yes, the odds of securing a place at Oxbridge are low but that alone is not a reason to stop students from applying.

looffa · 05/07/2023 08:21

Anyway....

There is an argument that, at Cambridge, college choice matters more if applying from the independent sector. I don't know how to link, sorry, but if you look at the stats for the last cycle, you can see that, despite the fact that proportionally more independent candidates are deemed worthy of pooling, only 1 in 9 of them go on to be 'fished,' compared to 1 in 5 of those pooled from the maintained sector.

Basically, in the last cycle, the overall ratio of direct offers from first choice colleges was similar for both sectors, but the odds of being selected from the pool was significantly lower for those applying from the independent sector. This was not always the case in previous years.

looffa · 05/07/2023 08:43

I'm not sure why the poster above is so invested as to come on to tell parents they are over-invested! Also, it may be true that only 19% of students achieve their predicted grades - but surely this is partly driven by the fact a proportion of the 81% achieve higher than predicted?

The only sure-fire way to not get in is to not apply. As long as people have their eyes open to the odds and peculiarities of the process (and threads like this can really help in that respect), why not?

Malbecfan · 05/07/2023 08:57

Like @ErrolTheDragon and @goodbyestranger, both of whom post regularly on other HE forums, my DDs are long past the application stage. I didn't use MN when DD1 applied and wish that I had found somewhere to ask the practical questions that DD would not have thought of. I'm sure I speak for all those of us who are here having been through the process; we want to offer a handhold and to be here to help with some of the questions about a process that lots of people don't know much about. Yes, I'm guilty of being extremely proud of my DDs and their achievements, but on this thread, I have confined myself to reporting having had 2 DDs apply, both get interviews, one get an offer having been pooled, and the other rejected. Pooled DD is now in the 2nd year of a PhD. Rejected DD is flying elsewhere, just about to start her Masters year, so it has all worked out well.

With DD1, we didn't attend the open days because she did a women into STEM course the week before in Cambridge and they talked through the process. We had also visited C in the previous summer and wandered around getting a feel for some of the colleges, although not the one she ended up at. She applied to the one where she did the course. I took DD2 to one of the open days. We had a plan to go to as many colleges as possible, apart from DD1's. She wanted to go to a lecture, so whilst she did that, I went to do some recce'ing for a school choir tour there a couple of weeks later. We both felt similarly about the various colleges we visited, but in the end, the choice was entirely hers. I saw my role as being a sounding board/devil's advocate, which is something I have done for a long time.

I'm equally happy either to remain and help if I can, or bow out if what I type is perceived as "sharp-elbowed" or "crowing".

10ppicnmix · 05/07/2023 09:03

@looffa thank you for this. Do you happen to have the same for Oxford? I can’t find it on the website. Admissions said last week that the current mix across the board was 70% state and 30% indie which is still way above the indie population of pupils at around 7% so they are trying to reflect that in their intake which is fair enough. DD’s school advice is not to get too hung up on college choices as if she is lucky and her HAT etc goes well, the chances are she will be pooled rather than accepted directly. She is still keen to apply tho.

10ppicnmix · 05/07/2023 09:06

Thanks for sharing @Malbecfan it is appreciated and I’d be extremely proud of I were you also.

looffa · 05/07/2023 09:34

10ppicnmix - I'm not sure about Oxford, sorry, but (as I understand it) pooling means something different there as students are actually sent to a specific college that might be deemed a better 'fit' or might have space for them, potentially. At Cambridge, they are not re-interviewed, but simply put in the winter pool and then there are two days in early Jan when tutors can compare their direct applicants with those in the pool. But it's only going to be the file they see, not the applicant in person (and more applicants are pooled than offered direct places, so a lot to 'trawl' through).

lifeturnsonadime · 05/07/2023 09:36

@Malbecfan It was me who used the term sharp elbowed.

It wasn't in reference to your posts. Most of the people posting with previous experience are being extremely helpful and the insight is appreciated.

With reference to DC not achieving predicted grades and the fact that chances of success are low due to the number of applicants, I think we are all well aware of this. Some of our DC can afford to drop a grade prediction and still meet the entry requirements. Obviously they still might not be made an offer in the first place.

For families like mine with state school educated children or where there are additional needs & mitigating factors such as those my DC has had, there is already doubt about whether to bother going through the process. I had a long conversation about this with a teacher at DCs school yesterday and he said a lot of the work he has to do in our school is in convincing kids they are worthy of having a go. As a pp said they wouldn't do that if they didn't think there is a chance of either meeting the predicted grades or there was no chance of success in the process or if they thought the child wouldn't fit the course if successful.

Posts that are telling parents they are pushy/ over invested to even consider it just serve to put parents in doubt over the process. I have no doubt that there are some over invested parents but many of us are just simply delighted that our DC have the opportunity to even consider applying. In my own part you won't have seen me on the FE or HE boards much before because I was tearing my hair out on the SEN boards over lack of appropriate education and the fact my DC wasn't even in a school for high school and sat his GCSEs at my dining room table.

lifeturnsonadime · 05/07/2023 09:37

Also congratulations to both your DC @Malbecfan you've every right to be proud.

JulesJules · 05/07/2023 10:07

10ppicnmix · 05/07/2023 09:03

@looffa thank you for this. Do you happen to have the same for Oxford? I can’t find it on the website. Admissions said last week that the current mix across the board was 70% state and 30% indie which is still way above the indie population of pupils at around 7% so they are trying to reflect that in their intake which is fair enough. DD’s school advice is not to get too hung up on college choices as if she is lucky and her HAT etc goes well, the chances are she will be pooled rather than accepted directly. She is still keen to apply tho.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students

Tons of admissions information on the annual admissions report for Oxford.

Re: expressing a preference for college or making an open application - we were told that it really makes no difference at all. When all the information is in (GCSE results, HAT results, submitted written work etc) they have a cut off point, usually interviewing about three students for every place. This is at Dept or faculty level and at this point the applications are spread out across the colleges. At interview, you may then be sent on to another college (or even two) to interview, this is sometimes done for standardisation anyway. Your offer may come from your original college, or another one. This seems to me to be a fairer system than the Cambridge one, but then there is the possibility of pooling there.

Undergraduate admissions statistics | University of Oxford

Oxford University is pleased to publish its sixth Annual Admissions Statistical Report. This gives information on the students who have applied to our undergraduate courses, received offers and been admitted, over the last five admissions years between...

https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students

10ppicnmix · 05/07/2023 10:12

Thank you @JulesJules

DD went off to Oxford last week preferring Cambridge and ended up switching her thoughts. Her reasoning is that for her course The offers at Oxford are lower and the applicant process seems clearer. She’s going back to Cambridge at the end of this week so we’ll see how she feels at the end of it!

PhotoDad · 05/07/2023 10:46

This is a bit of a generalisation, but Cambridge colleges tend to be more autonomous in the application process, hence things like the Winter Pool. Oxford generally sorts things out as a university with discussions between the colleges throughout the process. All things being equal, I think that the latter is more humane than the "pool" system, but there are obviously courses that only exist at one of the two.

goodbyestranger · 05/07/2023 10:57

Malbec must mean other HE threads, as I don't post on any other social media forums.

I've barely posted on this thread in fact and haven't read the full thread but I'm sure that Errol and Malbec aren't the sneering or crowing posters referred to! I think those ones tend to self identify :)

I have to say, with my own DC having had a number of successful applications to Oxbridge, I do personally find it very strange that parents think it appropriate to sit in the short lectures at Open Days, which are clearly intended for propspective students. Space is limited so those parents very often displace the students. At the Classics Open Day that DD4 went to ahead of applying, she said that parents remained sitting on seats while students stood at the back which is also thoughtless - the students are the ones who need energy, the parents are add ons.

Almost all of my DC have helped at the Open Days and every one has said that there is one constant: very pushy parents who insist on asking the questions over not only their own DC but cutting out other more apprehensive students. I would expect this aggressive parenting to be at its worst with Oxbridge but if the parents think the student helpers and tutors don't recognise it and find it over the top, then think again.

goodbyestranger · 05/07/2023 11:00

The offers at Oxford are lower

Well that may be true but it requires a student to bag an offer first to benefit. I haven't checked recently but a few years ago one of my DC pointed out that in almost all subjects the ratio of applicants to places is significantly higher at Oxford.

There are/ were some honorable exceptions Malbec!

ErrolTheDragon · 05/07/2023 11:07

DH accompanied DD to her Cambridge open day - the parents were firmly barred from the lecture theatre, to his amusement and some others consternation.Grin He gainfully occupied his time following some tiny signs 'To the robots', which led to a couple of very interesting and informative PhD students and their demos, which none of the 'helicopter' types had found.

Random advice for the day, applicable to many people and situations: "if the hat doesn't fit, don't wear it"

looffa · 05/07/2023 11:17

Yes, I would agree that the process at Oxford seems fairer and more standardised, while colleges at Cambridge seem to be more autonomous in terms of the application process.

I suppose it's potentially more stressful at Oxford if you have interviews at 2 or even 3 colleges (particularly if you still don't get an offer). Mind you, most of them have 2 interviews at Cambridge anyway (just on the same day for the same college).

Cambridge also interview a higher proportion of applicants (about 75%?) whereas Oxford make more of a cut pre-interviews.

Also, Oxford tend to look at applicant numbers on a departmental level and will shuffle candidate around colleges if necessary to even up ratios pre interviews. Cambridge do not do this, although 'open applications' tend to get allocated to colleges with lower numbers of applicants for a given subject in that year.

Hertsessex · 05/07/2023 11:35

goodbyestranger · 05/07/2023 10:57

Malbec must mean other HE threads, as I don't post on any other social media forums.

I've barely posted on this thread in fact and haven't read the full thread but I'm sure that Errol and Malbec aren't the sneering or crowing posters referred to! I think those ones tend to self identify :)

I have to say, with my own DC having had a number of successful applications to Oxbridge, I do personally find it very strange that parents think it appropriate to sit in the short lectures at Open Days, which are clearly intended for propspective students. Space is limited so those parents very often displace the students. At the Classics Open Day that DD4 went to ahead of applying, she said that parents remained sitting on seats while students stood at the back which is also thoughtless - the students are the ones who need energy, the parents are add ons.

Almost all of my DC have helped at the Open Days and every one has said that there is one constant: very pushy parents who insist on asking the questions over not only their own DC but cutting out other more apprehensive students. I would expect this aggressive parenting to be at its worst with Oxbridge but if the parents think the student helpers and tutors don't recognise it and find it over the top, then think again.

Good point on the lectures etc. Even at the college open days and tours I ended up ducking out after the first one. Just let my DD go alone so she could do the talking without me getting in the way.

Hertsessex · 05/07/2023 11:40

goodbyestranger · 05/07/2023 11:00

The offers at Oxford are lower

Well that may be true but it requires a student to bag an offer first to benefit. I haven't checked recently but a few years ago one of my DC pointed out that in almost all subjects the ratio of applicants to places is significantly higher at Oxford.

There are/ were some honorable exceptions Malbec!

This is particularly relevant for people taking the IB. The IB offers at Cambridge are demanding. My DD2 got 42 776 (results tomorrow) vs A*AA for the people doing A levels on same course at her college. Fingers crossed fine but if she had applied for something similar at Oxford then offer might well have been 39-40 and 766 which would have been a slam dunk. Been very stressful last few weeks and last few days especially with her not well worrying. Perhaps if applied to Oxford wouldn't have even got an offer and she prefers the Cambridge course but would have been a lot less stressful.

Hertsessex · 05/07/2023 11:49

Hertsessex · 05/07/2023 11:40

This is particularly relevant for people taking the IB. The IB offers at Cambridge are demanding. My DD2 got 42 776 (results tomorrow) vs A*AA for the people doing A levels on same course at her college. Fingers crossed fine but if she had applied for something similar at Oxford then offer might well have been 39-40 and 766 which would have been a slam dunk. Been very stressful last few weeks and last few days especially with her not well worrying. Perhaps if applied to Oxford wouldn't have even got an offer and she prefers the Cambridge course but would have been a lot less stressful.

PS I am not crowing about DD2. DD1 didn't even get an interview for Oxford despite already having taken the IB and scoring 43 so I've experienced both sides of this.

AndTheyFlyTheNest · 05/07/2023 12:13

Hi all, Haven't read all thread - but just a small correction from point made up-thread by @looffa about winter pooling at Cambridge. Students can be interviewed by the college who decides to fish them out. It happened to my son (and he was accepted).

10ppicnmix · 05/07/2023 12:14

@Hertsessex exactly this. The course DD wants to study is a standard offer which is much lower than the potential Cambridge offer. Although she’s got the predicted grades, she feels that there is no wriggle room should anything go tits up. We’ve had two unexpected bereavements in the immediate family in the past three months which has brought into focus that external factors other than studying might affect her performance.I do wish your DD all the luck with her results. My friends DD a couple of years back scored a fraction of one point less than her offer for Dentistry and I recall her anxiety waiting to see if she had her university place which Bristol would not confirm until the A levels results had been announced. I have everything crossed for you.

Hertsessex · 05/07/2023 12:19

10ppicnmix · 05/07/2023 12:14

@Hertsessex exactly this. The course DD wants to study is a standard offer which is much lower than the potential Cambridge offer. Although she’s got the predicted grades, she feels that there is no wriggle room should anything go tits up. We’ve had two unexpected bereavements in the immediate family in the past three months which has brought into focus that external factors other than studying might affect her performance.I do wish your DD all the luck with her results. My friends DD a couple of years back scored a fraction of one point less than her offer for Dentistry and I recall her anxiety waiting to see if she had her university place which Bristol would not confirm until the A levels results had been announced. I have everything crossed for you.

Thank you. All we seem to have heard recently are stories of people missing IB offer by one point and not getting in. Best of luck to your DD. Indeed a little wiggle room is nice as you just never know what is going to happen. In the old days the EE offers gave a lot of wiggle room :)

InvestedButNotOverinvested · 05/07/2023 12:47

Hi all, please can I join the thread.

DC2 is planning to study Physics. We’ve attending a few open days at various unis and they’ve done a fair bit of research. In addition to a number of other good options, they have decided to apply to Oxford rather than Cambridge mostly because of the course content, since they prefer pure Physics to the Cambridge NatSci option.

DC1 has just finished their first year in an Arts subject at Oxford, so we’ve been through this before, although competition for places in DC1’s subject was much lower than for Physics.

I agree with a number of the posters above: my observation is that Oxford selection is very heavily based on the relevant Aptitude tests plus interviews. Actual A level results are not a large part of their selection process. So they set offers they expect are reasonably achievable. Cambridge however do use A levels (and indeed STEP for maths) as a further way to select students - I expect they over offer a bit as they fully expect some students won’t make their offers. One of DC1’s friends is studying CompSci - his Oxford offer was actually lower than the offer to any of the other Unis he would have chosen had he not got in.

A question to those who may have been through this process pre-Covid. Do you know how the Oxford “contextualised GCSE” score works. It appears to be a number - generally between -2 and +2 - that is a relative indication of a DCs GSCE results relative to that expected for their cohort and school. Does this mean that, say, someone at St Paul’s who gets 10 9s at GCSE gets a score of 0, because that is average for their cohort, or do they still get something positive for achieving these results?(though obviously, and rightly, still rather lower than someone from a struggling inner city comp who achieved the same results)?

Swipe left for the next trending thread