Cambridge Or Edinburgh

[untilwhen]

DD2 has an offer from Cambridge to study classics. Even though she had applied to Cambridge, she had her heart set on going to Edinburgh where her older sister is studying and loves it.

She has been in love with classics since she was quite young, so in some ways, within last few months she has gotten a little bit over it and was planning on going to Edinburgh and switching to History and taking 2,3 different modules to study wider range of subjects.

She says she would like the independence of working (works at a local cafe at the moment) and cleaning and cooking for herself as full uni experience and Cambridge doesn't allow that.

She loves Edinburgh as a city but understands that Cambridge is Cambridge.

She intends to do Law conversion after her degree and we are based in London, so travel would be far easier to Cambridge.

Any advice, perspective appreciated. Thank you

Does her sister know if switching to history at Cambridge is possible? That’s just a guess surely? If she wants History it has to be Edinburgh. What’s the ratio for offers/applicants for History at Cambridge? I bet it’s not 2/1.

3:1 last year, not as high as one might imagine.

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/statistics

That still means 2/3 of highly qualified applicants not accepted. In fact the History faculty says 6 applicants for every place @ErrolTheDragon so I don’t know where you looked! Cambridge also say you can ask to transfer to History after year 1 or 2 of your chosen course. Classics is one they list. They also have the History Admissions Assessment at some colleges but it’s not clear if that operates for those transferring. They also like History grads to study foreign languages.

Where else has DD applied? And what subjects?

I don’t know where you looked!

On the link I gave, their official admissions stats page. Where did you look?

Sure, transferring may not be possible, and it seems a bit odd to accept an offer if you really don't want to do that course. Admissions stats may not be very relevant to the question of transfers anyway. I get the impression that once a college has made an offer then that's one of 'their' students and the general tendency is to be helpful if possible.

I haven’t had a chance to read the whole thread so sorry if I’m repeating someone else but it’s worth checking out with Edinburgh in advance to see how easy it is to switch to History. All Universities are coping with significant rises in post covid admissions including backlogs of deferred entries and many courses are full. My DD is studying a humanities subject and wanted to choose a history module as part of her first year studies but was rejected on grounds it was over subscribed despite being told in the prospectus she would be allowed to choose this combination of subjects. My son was recently sent an email from his sixth form college (England) advising students to not even bother applying to Edinburgh for a competitive subject as the school had had so many rejections in the previous year. Everything is so much harder post covid so it would be worth checking in advance.

checking in advance how easy it would be to switch should she receive an offer.

I have another DD who is studying at Cambridge and is having an absolute ball. It is hard work but having a balanced outlook with other interests particularly sport is key to help with managing workload and expectations. Both DDs are very happy and having a great time !

Oh gosh - I’ve just seen the issue was addressed in the postings directly above - apologies ! I read several of the first postings while travelling back from work and jotted down my musings rather hurriedly without checking all the comments X

Cambridge. It's a lot more competitive and much better for the future.

Could it be that the Edinburgh experience is more tangible to her from visiting her sister, and the Cambridge experience is more abstract?
I always had access to a kitchen where I could cook for myself at Cambridge and cleaners don’t do your room. Some colleges have big shared houses where you can rent a room, so there are other options aside from living in college.
I also had a job at the University itself but that’s probably the exception. You can work enough in the holidays to make up for it.
The social life is different but I think no less fun than anywhere else. I was the first in my family to go to university and wasn’t posh by any means and there are some complete wankers around but also so a large number of non-wankers. She can get more specific information about the college itself, which will also inform her decision.
It’s a shame to miss the experience and the advantages. It really does open so many doors.

I'm really amazed at the responses - I 100% think she should choose Edinburgh. Because it's very clear that's what she prefers. They're both excellent universities so no issue there. But it is possible to be extremely miserable at uni and perhaps particularly Oxbridge, if you don't want to be there.

For sure she should keep looking at options and should go to offer-holders days. But if she wants Edinburgh, she should go there.

Just to repeat – as I was typing on my phone when I previously expressed my own regrets, having gone to Cambridge in Edinburgh and there were typos. It is not a done deal that you’re at Cambridge that you can swap to any old subject. I know people who requested to swap, and were not permitted.

OP, I recommend you check out the thread I started this evening (unaware of this one). DS is an unhappy 1st year at Oxford and plans to transfer to York for September. I encouraged him to take up his Oxford place, whereas I now realise I should have stepped back and let him follow his heart. All the posters on my thread are saying I was wrong to push Oxford, whereas ppl on this thread saying the opposite to you OP!

@ErrolTheDragon
Apologies. 6-1 is Cambridge overall. History is indeed 3-1. It’s confusing as a link from the History faculty goes the general university page which says 6-1.

The dilemma here isn’t just university, it’s course and future career as well. If she’s luke warm about Classics it’s probably not for her. Cambridge is a better platform for law. History is a decent degree subject too. Wait for Edinburgh to offer? Or not! Where else has she been offered a place? Anywhere? What course?

She should go where she wants to go. I teach at Cambridge & honestly, it’s not the be all & end all. Edinburgh is a blast. She’ll have a great time.

It needs to be her decision.

I would encourage her to follow her instincts and if she wants breadth, it is worth really thinking about Edinburgh. I applied to Cambridge but didn’t get in - no hard feelings or chip on shoulder here, because I did get into Edinburgh and the breadth of the study options in the first year of my particular degree led me down a completely different path. One which I would never have taken if I’d gone to Cambridge. It allowed me to try another subject without commitment, and switch my degree - and a lot of my friends did similarly. It’s no exaggeration to say that for me, going to Edinburgh changed my life.

Now, I’m sure Cambridge would have changed my life in different ways - but the breadth Edinburgh offered to arts students was a distinct advantage for me. And it’s an amazing city to be a student in.

I went to Edinburgh and would highly recommend it. It's a capital city so for me had a much greater variety of life outside the university than places like Oxford, Cambridge and Durham. The student Union wasn't much of a focus when I was there as there were so many other places to go out, plus theatres, gigs and really whatever you were into.

I actually got into Edinburgh to do classics and when I got there realised I wanted to do something else. Their 2 years of doing 3 subjects made it very easy to change. I did Greek, English and Philosophy and ended up doing a Philosophy degree which I wasn't even considering when I applied. I loved the flexibility. Also disagree with a PP who said you get bored in your first year. Not having that pressure in the first year gave you space to settle in and become independent, particularly important for those away from home for the first time. You also come out with an MA rather than a BA for that extra year. Obviously it's a hit financially, so that may be something for @untilwhen to consider.

I also disagree with the law firms point. Several friends who didn't study law ended up doing law conversion courses and going to big name law firms - Slaughter & May, Simmonds & Simmonds are a couple that spring to mind.

No one says Edinburgh grads won’t be lawyers but Oxbridge is a significant source of higher paid lawyers. There’s no getting away from that. At the Bar it’s 40%.

Is that percentage stable or changing over time at all?

The richest self-made person i know is an Edinburgh graduate (banker), couple of other Edinburgh friends are hedge funders investing in alternative energy, three are v successful entrepreneurs (one has an MBE for her work), one's a director/screenwriter, one is a partner in a magic circle law firm, one has her own headhunting firm, one is in a very high management role at Reuters, one is head of environmental affairs for a HUGE business, one has his own lobbying consultancy. Put it this way, I wouldn't suggest going to Edinburgh impedes your life chances ... it's one of the places my Oxbridge reject ds is waiting on for an offer and I am just praying he get an offer as it's notoriously hard to get into now.

It’s hard to get into due to Scottish political decisions around finance if you read the other recent thread about law. It’s about needing foreign students for their fees to compensate for low funding from the Scottish government and policies surrounding disadvantaged students. Definitely for law anyway. It’s difficult to see why history wouldn’t be similar.,

@ErrolTheDragon
Oxbridge still is a very good indicator of who will succeed. They have short terms, work like stink, have been through numerous hoops to get in and some grads are ludicrously gifted! There are of course other things non Oxbridge undergrad can do to get a top law career. Get a masters in law from Oxbridge. Great help for commercial law.

Barristers who are not Oxbridge can help themselves by choosing an area of law that’s less Oxbridge dominated, get a scholarship from an inn of court, get outstanding in their bar qualification and ideally get a first from a university chambers like and respect. Difficult to find very recent info about what universities are coming up on the rails though. The figures are skewed by older barristers who are recent career changers. They might have gone to any university, built up a specialist career and then swap to law. However non RG is still a small proportion of young people.

Latest info for all law jobs, 76% RG. The last time I looked for the Bar it was 89% RG.

Of course Edinburgh is a great university, but Cambridge is one of the top institutions in the world. It will look better (than Edinburgh, than pretty much everywhere) on her CV for the rest of her life, whatever job she goes into.

She knows more about the social aspect of Edinburgh because of her sister than she does about Cambridge- it’s likely that a lot of the differences she thinks there are are exaggerated or just wrong.

Subject choice is perhaps the only thing that might sway me in her position, but she really needs to (I) decide what she actually wants to do - she must be interested in/gifted at classics to have got a place in the first place and then (2) properly explore her options for switching to History at Cambridge if that’s what she wants. It’s also worth noting that, especially in 2nd/3rd year, Cambridge students have a great deal of flexibility in their modules - she may well be able to do a history degree with ancient history/classics focus, or classics with several history options.

I studied English but took papers from the Modern Languages and ASNAC courses in my final year.

Would be interesting to know what percentage of the RG percentage that Oxbridge makes up.

With so much emphasis on diversity now, I wonder if there will be a push to ensure there is broader recruitment than just Oxford and Cambridge. If recruiters have an upper limit of Oxbridge grads for their intake, it would mean that as an Oxbridge applicant you are competing in a limited pool with other, highly competitive Oxbridge grads. While other highly competitive grads from Edinburgh, Bristol, etc. are competing in a broader, more differentiated pool where they can stand out.

Big law firms are increasingly doing CV blind applications now, so it may help to a lesser degree with getting your foot in the door than it used to.

However, once in the door the big firms are still populated at senior levels by (1) old white Oxbridge educated men and (2) Americans, both categories who remain very impressed by Oxbridge degrees. My own degree continues to stand me in good stead after 10 years of practice. I recently moved jobs and it was commented on at every interview (and lateral hires are never done on a CV blind basis).