Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Firm and insurance

26 replies

ComeonArsenal · 23/01/2023 22:26

DC has offers of ABB from Nottingham and Newcastle, plus lower offers from Reading and Aberystwyth. He only likes the courses at Notts and Newcastle so is thinking of forming Notts and insuring Newcastle. Yes, I know they are the same offer but his reasoning is that one or other of them might be generous if he slips a grade (eg. BBB) and he really doesn’t want to go elsewhere. Thoughts please?!

OP posts:
Juja · 23/01/2023 22:35

Depends in part how confident he is with his grades.

Last year DN firmed and insured offers with identical grade requirements (AAA). She exceeded in one subject and slipped din another A star A B. She was rejected by both, went into clearing. She is very happy at her clearing place but it was very stressful and she felt awful for a while.

Neither were Newcastle or Nottingham - both London unis... Can he enquire from the admissions officer at Nottingham and Newcastle?

Original poster
ComeonArsenal · 23/01/2023 22:42

Good idea - I will suggest that. Clearing sounds a mare but he says he’d rather do that than go elsewhere! Thx

OP posts:
Original poster
ComeonArsenal · 23/01/2023 22:44

PS delighted to hear your DN is happy with her eventual choice

OP posts:
ThaiGreenCurry2Go · 24/01/2023 01:30

This strategy worked for my grand daughter. She firmed York and insured Sheffield - both same grades (AAB). She missed and got ABB but York still took her (she now a fresher there and loving it). Friend’s grandson son firmed Cambridge (AAA) and insured York. His school “lost” one of his exam papers (he sat it on a laptop and they did not submit it correctly!) so he was originally graded a B in the subject he needed an A in. Lovely York still immediately confirmed his place even though he missed their grades due to school cock-up. He’s now at Cambridge as school soon “found” his paper and got it marked by AQA (so Camb accepted him) but he and my friend’s family can’t sing York’s praises high enough. Wonderful uni

MarchingFrogs · 24/01/2023 07:43

ComeonArsenal · 23/01/2023 22:42

Good idea - I will suggest that. Clearing sounds a mare but he says he’d rather do that than go elsewhere! Thx

But he would have to see whether there was a different course he wanted to do at Nottingham or Newcastle, which was in clearing and only wanting lower grades than the one he'd been rejected by, if he really won't consider anywhere else?

But if he wouldn't actually go to either Reading or Aberystwyth if he did name one of them as his insurance and missed his firm, there is no point in having them as insurance. It isn't compulsory to have an insurance choice at all. Has he changed his mind about the courses / universities since submitting his application, or did he never intend to go to either?

Juja · 24/01/2023 10:37

ThaiGreenCurry2Go · 24/01/2023 01:30

This strategy worked for my grand daughter. She firmed York and insured Sheffield - both same grades (AAB). She missed and got ABB but York still took her (she now a fresher there and loving it). Friend’s grandson son firmed Cambridge (AAA) and insured York. His school “lost” one of his exam papers (he sat it on a laptop and they did not submit it correctly!) so he was originally graded a B in the subject he needed an A in. Lovely York still immediately confirmed his place even though he missed their grades due to school cock-up. He’s now at Cambridge as school soon “found” his paper and got it marked by AQA (so Camb accepted him) but he and my friend’s family can’t sing York’s praises high enough. Wonderful uni

@ComeonArsenal yes all's well that ends well but she took a real blow to her self confidence. DN slip in a grade was due to her exam board not following the guidance they gave on what topics would be examined - this was last year when topics were limited due to Covid. They apologised but only gave an extra 2.5% - not really enough if you haven't covered that topic!

Sounds like a super stressful few days @ThaiGreenCurry2Go - my DD got 0% on one part of her A Level which lost her 10% of her total A Level. Not the school's fault in her case - the exam board when queried admitted it was an administrative error - they'd just forgotten to add in that mark. Fortunately for her it didn't affect her Uni place.

All these anecdotal stories mean I would always query unexpected results with schools and exam boards. Don't be away on holiday on results day....

titchy · 24/01/2023 10:46

We're either in clearing this year? That might suggest they'd be slightly lenient this year. Possibly - it's more competitive this year.

If he won't consider Aber or Reading why does he think he'd be happy with somewhere in clearing? If Poppleton is in clearing and he'd accept a clearing offer for them, why weren't they on his original 5?

poetryandwine · 24/01/2023 11:49

Former Russell Group admissions tutor here.

As PPs attest, this strategy can work but it fails more often than it succeeds, particularly in a competitive year. As far as we know this is expected to be a competitive year, in that it will be the first normal one since the pandemic.

I have the same question as @titchy (who is also an academic): why didn’t your DS make other choices if Clearing now seems more desirable than A or R? Could this just be cold feet/head in the sand? ‘Insurance’ is not intended to equate to ‘second favourite’

MarchingFrogs · 24/01/2023 13:41

If there is really somewhere that he would accept as a clearing option, if he only named four universities initially, he's still hot 24 hours to make an actual on time application.

Original poster
ComeonArsenal · 24/01/2023 14:08

Thank you all for replying. He named five unis Birmingham (aspirational - unlikely to get AAB), Notts, Newcastle, Reading and Aber. Not heard back from Brum yet. The reason he doesn't want to go to Reading or Aber is due to the course (it's 50% weighted towards business management - unlike only 33% at his top three choices). He's hoping that if he narrowly misses ABB and neither Notts or Newcastle accept him outright, he might still pick up the very same course at the very same institutions in clearing????!!! Perhaps this is wishful thinking.

Sadly, no university offers below ABB for the precise course he wants - which is why he put Reading and Aber's version of the course (which is more heavily skewed towards business) on his UCAS form....

OP posts:
titchy · 24/01/2023 14:17

Eh? You mean he's hoping that if New or Nott reject him but they're in clearing that they'd then accept him again? It doesn't work like that! They'll have considered all their firm/insured applicants that missed four days earlier and decided each of them. If they decided no, they won't suddenly decide yes a few days later.

titchy · 24/01/2023 14:18

Btw the difference between 33% business and 50% business is one 20 credit module out of 120 each year - not much at all.

Fifthtimelucky · 24/01/2023 14:30

One of my daughters didn't end up with an insurance offer. Her three favourites offered AAA and the other two offered AAB.

She was trying to decide between her top two when one of them offered one AAB if she firmed it. She decided to go for that, which meant that she needed AAB for both her firm and insurance.

Luckily it worked out and she got what she needed, but I was very stressed in the run up to results day!

HairinaBeaHive · 24/01/2023 14:31

Is there an idiot proof way of finding out if a course was in clearing last year?

Original poster
ComeonArsenal · 24/01/2023 14:33

@titchy that is exactly what he was thinking, yes! Thank you for explaining that that won't work - this is my first time navigating the university system!

OP posts:
Original poster
ComeonArsenal · 24/01/2023 14:35

HairinaBeaHive · 24/01/2023 14:31

Is there an idiot proof way of finding out if a course was in clearing last year?

I would also love to know this...

OP posts:
Original poster
ComeonArsenal · 24/01/2023 14:36

@Fifthtimelucky I can imagine how stressful that was! Glad to hear it came off! Is it common for universities (top RG ones) to reduce the offer by a grade if you firm them?

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 24/01/2023 15:08

I don’t know how common it is to make a lower offer if you will Firm. My School don’t do it. I would think it dependent upon the particulars of each degree programme.

Currently towards the bottom of p1 on this Forum there is a thread about this very topic. Both Newcastle and Notts are mentioned as unis that will do this, but no Business programmes are mentioned

gogohmm · 24/01/2023 15:15

Newcastle have a habit of dropping grades so as an insurance they are a good choice

Soma · 24/01/2023 16:58

Friend's DS dropped a grade for a business type course at Newcastle and they didn't accept him.

Soma · 24/01/2023 16:59

@ComeonArsenal not sure how definitive this list was, but it might help.

www.timeshighereducation.com/student/advice/clearing-2022-uk-universities-courses-still-available

User76765 · 25/01/2023 11:20

ComeonArsenal · 24/01/2023 14:08

Thank you all for replying. He named five unis Birmingham (aspirational - unlikely to get AAB), Notts, Newcastle, Reading and Aber. Not heard back from Brum yet. The reason he doesn't want to go to Reading or Aber is due to the course (it's 50% weighted towards business management - unlike only 33% at his top three choices). He's hoping that if he narrowly misses ABB and neither Notts or Newcastle accept him outright, he might still pick up the very same course at the very same institutions in clearing????!!! Perhaps this is wishful thinking.

Sadly, no university offers below ABB for the precise course he wants - which is why he put Reading and Aber's version of the course (which is more heavily skewed towards business) on his UCAS form....

I think kids often think that universities drop their grade requirements in clearing. They don't tend to do this anymore unless they're really, really undersubscribed. If they want AAA and a student didn't get the grades but the course goes into clearing, it is probably still going to be at AAA. They don't want the student who missed the grades and only got ABB, they want the different student who missed out on their A star A star A course somewhere else because they only got AAA and is now in clearing looking for an AAA option.

Fifthtimelucky · 25/01/2023 15:32

ComeonArsenal · 24/01/2023 14:36

@Fifthtimelucky I can imagine how stressful that was! Glad to hear it came off! Is it common for universities (top RG ones) to reduce the offer by a grade if you firm them?

I don't know to be honest. Her two favourites were Exeter and Birmingham. Only one (Exeter) offered her a reduction if she firmed. As she loved both, was finding it very difficult to decide between them even after two visits to each, and she much preferred them to her other choices (Leeds, Nottingham and Southampton), the reduced offer from Exeter definitely swung it for her.

That was a few years ago though (she's now 22) so it might be different.

My older daughter didn't have any grade reductions offered but she did have two unconditional if firmed offers (Birmingham and Nottingham). Those are now less common of course. She kept Birmingham as her insurance, so it wasn't unconditional, but it was a proper insurance because the grades they wanted were lower than her first choice and easily within her reach.

Hillarious · 26/01/2023 14:19

Same strategy worked for my son. He had ABB for both Birmingham (firm) and Leeds (insurance). He got BBB, rejected by Birmingham, but accepted immediately by Leeds. Very pleased to have gone to Leeds.

Best not to pick an insurance because of low grades if you really don't want to go there. If you miss both offers and there are potentially clearing places on the course, the chances are you'd be offered a place anyway.

Original poster
ComeonArsenal · 26/01/2023 19:20

@Hillarious My son is delighted to hear your son's story and feels vindicated! He is hoping for the precise same and has decided to risk it.

OP posts: