Civil Engineering guidance please

[sorcerersapprentice]

My son in Y12 has recently expressed a strong interest to do Civil or perhaps Mechanical Engineering at Uni. He's doing Maths, Further Maths and Physics at A Level. I have no knowledge or experience of this subject and career being an Arts graduate!

Can anyone give advice guidance on best courses, best course structures, internships, entrance requirements etc. Is there any experience he needs beforehand? What will he need to demonstrate to get on a course?
Or anything else that's useful

I'm not a CE but I'm in the industry. It's a fantastic career. I'd start by getting him to investigate the apprenticeships / ' learn and earn' oops offered by the big companies - McAlpine, Bowmer & Kirkland, Kier, BAM, Arups, WSP and the rest. Get qualified while earning, no debt, employment at the end of it.

Need to get in it though and try and get some work experience between y12 and 13.

If he does want to go down the uni route, ucl, Leeds, Sheffield, Glasgow

My son is a civil engineer. He graduated from Birmingham uni in 2018 and found work very quickly; he didn't do a sandwich year in industry. He struggled with the calculus which was a big step up from A Level maths so it is good that yours is taking further maths.

Hello, OP -
@TizerorFizz is your woman for all things CE. Hopefully your title and this post will attract her

Just joining in as DS has decided that this is what he wants to do.

Nephew went to Swansea
Did a year in industry and they offered him a well paid job when he finished his degree.

I'm a mechanical engineer, ended up working in the offshore and subsea oil and gas industry for years and now work in renewables. Got to travel all over the place and earn a decent wage.

If he has the smarts then aim for Imperial, Manchester, UCL, Edinburgh, Sheffield, Bristol.

ALso contact the governing bodies who will help articulate career paths and opportunities.

Links here

Engineering Council has some decent info here:

School leavers & advisors

I did civil engineering for my degree, am now a chartered civil engineer working in construction - it's a fantastic career, I am still learning new things every day.

Currently working as a public sector construction project manager and it's awesome - I get to change people's working lives for the better

Thank you everybody- these are fantastic and very useful replies. He's definitely capable on handling tough maths so could cope with a challenging course. And great to hear so many positive vibes about the job itself . He doesn't want to spend his days fully behind a desk which is how he's arrived at Engineering- I've said you'll be out on site in your hard hat and hi vis, so hopefully I've got that right!

@poetryandwine Thanks for your kind words.
@sorcerersapprentice DH is a Chartered Civil and Structural Engineer. He has run a successful engineering consultancy for decades and employed many engineers along the line. As a starting point, DS could look for consulting engineers in your area and ask for work experience. Lots of engineers will be able and willing to show Dc what they are working on. The consultancies such as Arup are huge but might not have an office local to you. However look at their web sites for breadth of big project work available. DH isn’t Arup! However work is vital and important whether it’s making a building stand up or designing flood water schemes etc.

There are many top class civil engineering courses at universities. Make sure they are accredited. The very best universities are mentioned above and there are others such as Southampton, Nottingham, Birmingham, Warwick. Newcastle, Liverpool and plenty of newer universities that were formerly Polytechnics. The grades asked for will give you an idea of what’s available.

DH was always interested in how buildings worked and was a practical engineer: making things, repairing things, solving problems. Look at any summer schools and the Arkwright Scholarships. If the Institutions (Civil, Structural) have open days, go to them. Are any big engineering projects having open days/exhibitions? Go to them.

When you look at degree courses you see two main degrees. MEng and BEng. The MEng will be 4 years. It’s the quickest route to being a Chartered Engineer. BEng typically leads to being an Incorporated Engineer. More study/work will be required to then become Chartered. The difference matters at some companies in terms of career and pay. Less at others. Chartered Engineers should expect to earn more and be responsible for design and team leadership, especially Chartered Structural Engineers. DC might wish to consider if that’s where they want to specialise.

The other decision is whether to have a year in industry or not. These can be very useful but students might have to find their own placement. Universities don’t have enough to go round quite often.

The other option is apprenticeships. I don’t know about the details for each one. It’s important to check if the degrees are MEng or BEng. They are usually part time. Dc will be paid, but what really are the long term prospects? Are you going to be Chartered as quickly as the MEng grads? Are you going to be chartered at all? Is the aim for apprentices to be Incorporated Engineers? What university is attended? If you can get to (eg) Sheffield for MEng are you better off there or with a BEng degree from Herts on an apprenticeship?

A Civil and Structural Engineer really can work anywhere. There are consultancies, contractors, project managers and government agencies. There’s no shortage or work. If you can actually run the business, earnings are very high.

I did civil engineering, was sponsored by a contracting company through university so had paid work placements each summer and my year out. They employed me on graduation and I worked on site for 15 years, got chartered and worked my way up to a senior management role.
i moved in to a consultancy role a few years ago and now specialise in the disputes side of the industry, so dealing with the fallout when projects go wrong.

its a great, varied career and I found the degree very interesting. Lots of variety.. some very hard maths, structural analysis, geology through to law, technical drawing/CAD, management. It’s full on, I did approx 25-30 hrs a week contact time, but found the work manageable as it was very structured.

There’s plenty of graduate jobs so finding work shouldn’t be a problem.

I can't help much but my dd is considering engineering - she's still undecided what degree to do - and she's applying to some university taster days and residentials to help her see what it would be like studying different subjects. So, your ds could do a taster day in civil engineering and one in mechanical engineering to get an idea which he preferred. Sheffield University is meant to be good for engineering but their taster days don't include civil or mechanical (my dd has applied for the robotics). www.sheffield.ac.uk/undergraduate/visit/subject-tasters/campus
Also Bath University has some summer schools in different types of engineering (free to attend but I think you might need to be in one of the contextual offers criteria): www.bath.ac.uk/guides/discover-bath-engineering/
There are loads more these are just a couple that I know about.
Also agree if your ds definitely wants to work in this field he might be better getting a degree apprenticeship if he can.

@catsonahottinroof
Why do you think apprenticeships are better when you don’t know much about engineering? As I said above, it’s vital to check qualifications gained and what they actually lead to. I still think a Sheffield MEng might lead to a better career for the right person. Anyone interested in Civils/Structures should consider Sheffield.

@sorcerersapprentice DC cannot be on site all the time. The syllabus for all courses is about design. You will get plenty of time on site supervising the building of the design, but you must know about design in the first place. Look for jobs where there is a combination of roles. DH has loved his career. Engineers who are willing to learn and find cost effective solutions are very employable. Ones who understand the business of engineeing will do well too.

I'm a civil engineer, but at the other end of my career. I can't add much to all the good stuff that has been says above, and definitely look into apprenticeships/degree apprenticeships - all the big contractors and consultancies do them. In my experience, some of the very best people I have worked with have come through apprenticeships/night school/day release type routes, although this obviously doesn't give you the student lifestyle.

It's worth checking course accreditation with the Institution of Civil Engineers too, for ease of chartership in future.

It's actually a really exciting time to be in the industry. Decarbonising the industry is the big modern challenge, as much as building our infrastructure was for Telford, Brunel and Stephenson.

I’ve worked in a specialist area of civils - lots of practical and very hands on site work in some quite unique places.

I’d also look at courses that incorporate environmental engineering. Whilst an integrated masters gives you the quickest route towards getting chartered, there is also the argument for working for a couple of years and doing a specialist masters once you know what really interests you. More expensive so you need to take that into account, but often better regarded as a full time 1 Yr MSc covers more than the final year of an MEng degree.

@TizerorFizz I only meant that because the company would be sponsoring your degree, you wouldn't end up with any debts and you would presumably have a guaranteed job at the end of it. I'm not saying an apprenticeship is better, it's just I've had a couple of people whose children are doing engineering apprenticeships raving about them recently.
Sorry for interfering I'll butt out now!

@catsonahottinroof
Absolutely no need to butt out. The loan is a tax. It’s not a bank loan. So you back yourself by taking one out.

Im just saying that there needs to be very detailed comparisons of what “engineering” actually means and exactly what is offered. Lots of engineering apprentices are not studying for degrees at all. If they are, it’s difficult to study for an MEng as they are 4 years full
time and often require 30-40 hours a week of study/labs work. I’ve not seen a part time one but they might exist. Our very best universities attract undergrads from all over the world and successful completion of a MEng course will lead to a very good job. All young people need to weigh up the options but should not compare apples and pears.

You've all been really helpful - thank you! It's given us plenty of food for thought but what's been really pleasing to see is the enthusiasm about the career itself and the opportunities it offers. I think it will suit my DS really well. I think we can get a shortlist of good Uni courses from these responses alone. I think he will likely opt for Uni rather than apprenticeships, but after we've done all our investigations, that may change.

Can I ask those who are civil engineers, what is your salary and how many years ago did you graduate? My nephew is in his 1st year and feels very deflated since he found out the starting salary.

@winterpastasalad
Depends where you live and if you are BEng or MEng. Typically over £30,000. However most companies will offer profit share and other benefits. It’s also fairly quick promotion for the best employees. You also have to factor in interesting work snd even global opportunities. Most grads need quite a lot of additional expensive training. You need to look at the whole package being offered.

Just to add, DH is ancient. He’s earned a fortune but he’s unique I suspect. He owned and ran a very successful consultancy. However employees all earn well after they fully qualify. Like most jobs, qualifications and experience matter but do does raw ability and personal qualities.

I work for an Engineering consultancy (in a non Engineering role - more client relationship management) and am generally involved in grad recruitment. I’d absolutely agree with those who have mentioned an industry placement, we frequently have our placement students back on the Grad scheme so it’s a great opportunity to see how you feel about the sector and the type of work.

For those capable/motivated to do a degree I’d avoid the apprenticeship route - it does take longer and the opportunities can be limited within the workplace - as unfortunately the pick of the food junior roles seem to go to the grads. It’s a good route for those who aren’t suited to the degree route but wouldn’t be my first choice.

In reality we recruit from quite a small pool of universities, which are mentioned upthread and we also have lots international colleagues who did Engineering related masters degrees at UK universities. It’s a very diverse sector.

Echo the focus on environment and decarbonisation increasing in importance, also social value and customer experience becoming more relevant across the sector.

Some less stellar universities do have great relationships with employers and their courses often prepare grads well for work where solutions at a competitive price are vital as opposed to theory.