Which med schools are best?

[FindingMoMo]

I know there is no such thing as a best med school but which campus based University is best for a bright and sociable student, providing an excellent education in science, public health, practical medicine and creating doctors with excellent communication skills?

@jgw1 it's unlikely anyone will run BMAT as it costs too much money. So few use it now. Something might replace it, or Unis will do their own exams, or use UCAT.

I suppose it is good having two exams as, if the UCAT doesn't go to plan, at least there is another chance and some do much better in BMAT than in UCAT. From an administrative purpose though it seems a daft having two, particularly in 2019 and 2020, with all the BMAT admin mess-ups.

Sorry meant 2020 and 2021 mess ups. Still getting used to the fact we are now in 2023!

If a student gets 0 offers after 4 interviews then they don't interview well. The worst red flags are seeming arrogant or like they lied/made stories up.

I could write a lot about what students do wrong in interviews: remember it's a conversation and to answer the question you were asked, not the question you rehearsed a long answer for.

I'm not sure that Med Schools do/can really teach students to have great comm skills, but I imagine courses that offer early clinical contact (practise interviewing patients) could foster such skills better than more theory-based courses.

My surgery has Uni students who interview patients, it is amusing to listen to them trying to learn how to take a clinical history. They are taught consultation skills a huge amount, posters around the Uni, role play with actors who earn £120/hour. But fundamentally, most need to start Uni as people-people to excel later at comm skills.

Why does your young person want campus-based, OP?

@FindingMoMo

Sheffield! Sheffield is a friendly city, not expensive to live in, compared say to London. The halls I’ve seen are in a nice, leafy suburb in West Sheffield - most are on a green campus. There’s nice parks, great shopping at Meadowhall and good nightlife. Nice restaurants on the Eccleshall Rd, near to the halls; and in Central Sheffield! It’s easy to get into the Peak District for walks, or in DH’s case pub crawls!

@Quisquam agreed! I have a DD who is a very happy 2nd year medical student at Sheffield Uni. She was very lucky and did have a choice of where to go. Ultimately she decided she liked the sound of the course structure best at Sheffield.

Agree with previous posters too though that until you have the full picture, ie UCAT result etc, you can’t really whittle it down too much.

Although I should add, Sheffield Uni isn’t actually a campus Uni, but everything is so close together it feels almost like it is!

I know a couple of first years at Keele who are enjoying it. Was in the top ten last year but slipped this year - probably down to government grants!

It doesn't matter where you go. You just need to get in. And that takes some strategy and a bit of luck.
Most Unis now have early patient contact (even Cambridge is doing this from 2024), to ensure good communication skills. Lots start taking histories in first few weeks, so by 3rd year they are 2nd nature. Med school is no longer Adam Kay style. And there's much more emphasis on soft skills.

What does "progressive" mean? Traditional places might have progressive research going on?

Dc (from state comprehensive school ) had offers from one old more traditional place, one campus, and from bsms
They chose bsms as clinical from year one and enjoying ( despite covid years ! )

As bsms says BSMS offers a distinctive and innovative course that prepares its graduates to enter an ever-changing and developing world of healthcare. On our course, you'll have early clinical contact with patients and carers, and interactions with health professionals in the hospital and community settings

Ecclesall Road Sheffield surely.

Ecclesall Road Sheffield surely.

Quite likely! Four members of our family went to University of Sheffield, so I’ve been there quite a lot, but I didn’t go there myself - I drive around these places, but mainly hear the names, I don’t see them written down much!

Lots of good advice already re. medical schools, just wanted to address a slightly different point you made @FindingMoMo. If your DC does show an interest in public health, the best thing to do is a Masters at LSHTM, it's a world-renown course.

DD did a Masters at LSHTM – not public health, but several of her friends did do that course, many of whom were already fully qualified doctors and would highly recommend it.

Another idea, if DC is only in year 9, is St John Cadets. Great fun in itself, and v beneficial for medicine interviews. You learn first aid and teamwork skills, enter competitions against cadets from other towns, from age 16 can help with first aid at festivals, football matches etc. The competitions are similar to some MMIs, and working at events provides lots to talk about in interview. You also tend to meet other aspiring medics, which can be useful if you're at a school that doesn't have many.

The GAMSAT went and stayed digital post-covid so it's entirely possible to make the finances work. Also GAMSAT has the advantage of probably better predictive value, since it's weighted towards maturity of thinking. The science is accessible to people who may not have done science for many years. Probably also a good replacement for UCAT given the many complaints some people have about UCAT. Interestingly Warwick require a minimum UCAT verbal reasoning score as that has good predictive value, which GAMSAT already has inbuilt. There may be lots of other solutions however GAMSAT is "oven ready" and arguably superior to existing tests. The real question is why reconstruct the BMAT when there is already a better test in place? Especially since GAMSAT can be readily used for applicants with no GCSEs or A levels, which will widen access without operating various cumbersome WP schemes.

But GAMSAT is for graduates, so is aimed at a v different audience to BMAT. Nearly all medical schools use UCAT now, and however much we hate the exam, they seem to think it provides the best selection information. Notts also double weight verbal reasoning section.

GAMSAT can be sat by anyone, it;s not just for graduates. Medicine is a "graduate" degree in Australia, hence the name. The science is Australian 1st year undergrad, so not substantially different to UK year 13. Its value is in the better honed standard of thinking, judgement and communication, gained through experience. Given the many issues people have with UCAT being insufficiently nuanced towards life experience, it would be an objective source of evidence in support of interviews to select the most suitable applicants; difficult to discount as an option to directly replace BMAT. It's certainly a more effective leveller for those who have no GCSEs or A levels due to their life chances; much faster to achieve than sitting A levels, though not easier, which in itself is a test of aptitude. That said, schools will have to weigh up the politics against the options, so perhaps they may offer a package where UCAT comes with high conventional markers while GAMSAT requires no other baggage as it's relatively complete, for shortlisting to interview?

@maryso think we'll have to disagree on this. UCAT is designed to not be affected by life experiences to make it fairer - richer people have the opportunity for more life enhancing experiences than poorer ones.
UCAT tests fast decision making, fast maths, decision making and thinking outside the box. As well as judgements on ethical situations. It's a horrid exam but it does test the skills required in medicine. And Unis think it works.

@mumsneedwine I don't know what we're supposed to be disagreeing on!

Clearly GAMSAT is accessible to non-grads, so that's not it. GAMSAT does all that UCAT does. It is akin to BMAT but more nuanced. It provides objective evidence for interview shortlisting that UCAT is not designed for. UCAT cannot compare as its scope is more limited so obviously where schools offer both, UCAT comes with high conventional exam markers, albeit tempered by lower WP offers. GAMSAT addresses the required knowledge so levels things for those who did not benefit from steering at school, which UCAT does to a lesser extent. Some schools already offer UCAT and GAMSAT as alternatives, and there is no reason why this approach won't increase. It surely must be a good thing that there are more routes enabling more effective selection.

@maryso GAMSAT is about 100 times more expensive !! Wow. Preserve of the wealthy I'm afraid.

@maryso bit I do agree that more routes in is always welcome. Just not ones that cost £000s. My students get UCAT for free (& UCAS) so applying costs them nothing.

@mumsneedwine it's so obvious that GAMSAT will cost much much less than acquiring 3 A levels, both in time and charges. So that's a mistaken conclusion. Are there any real objections to it being an option of many, or is about resistance to change? Clearly those on the A level path will just pay a little more for UCAT, which many do not find horrid, however it is always the ones that do who call out. It is however obviously a lot cheaper for those without to prepare for GAMSAT. Preparing for A levels in their situations is definitely the preserve of the wealthy I'm afraid.

It is entirely possible for financial support to be provided for those in need for GAMSAT, however unlikely to be used for teenagers since they already have education paid for when applying

@maryso A levels don't cost anything for state school students in the UK.

Education at state school is not free, just paid by someone else, and anyone who is over 19 has to pay much more then the GAMSAT fees to get A levels, so GAMSAT is cheap for them. A levels for these people are the preserve of the rich.