Masters dissertation / supervisor struggles

[Fallulah]

Just want some perspective and experiences of others please.

I’m on a part time masters and only have the dissertation to do. I missed the first proposal deadline in October because I hadn’t decided my topic, which was entirely my fault. I caught up, worked hard and submitted my proposal to my supervisor. It came back full of notes, conflicting feedback and extra questions. I feel like they wanted me to actually write the literature review now rather than just a proposal, and other really specific things about my methods - surely your question design is informed by your literature review, when you do it.

I ended up coming up with a new area of research because it was clear I wasn’t going to get the first idea approved. I emailed my supervisor about that, just asking if that sounded ok so that I could get going on a new proposal. They took three days to get back to me and say it sounded workable. So I’m now working on it. But also in that email they advised me, in summary, that they have limited availability to look at anything else until mid/late January. So this suggests I won’t be able to get my proposal signed off until late January, when I have to then do all the work and the writing up by end August/September.

I’ve never heard of this practice of blocking time out days in advance to look at an email. If I had a student that needed something or a parent emailed me, I couldn’t say ‘I have no time to look at anything until Monday’ or similar. I don’t know if this is normal for lecturers.

I’m not someone who needs loads of academic support (I’ve got distinctions for my other work on the course so far, although you wouldn’t think that from the feedback I’ve had on my proposal drafts) but it would be nice to feel I had a supporter. I asked for a previous tutor to be my supervisor but this wasn’t allowed and I was allocated this one fairly late in the process, so I don’t want to change again as that will delay it more.

I’m tempted to just submit the proposal unsigned due to the limited availability of my supervisor. Is there any point doing this or will it just get bounced back? I wanted to work on the lit review over Christmas, not be still going back and forth about what is only an unmarked proposal that counts for nothing.

I have adored this masters course but this process has had me in tears more than once and I’ve considered just giving up because of the bureaucracy and how useless I’ve been made to feel.

Any soothing words of advice greatly appreciated. Has anyone else had these issues at the start and still managed to make a success of it?

Hi I'm in similar position to you except my supervisor has been very helpful!
If I were you I would just get on and do the literature review over Christmas.

I had a problem like this. I complained to the head of year because my dissertation had been signed off by one supervisor. She then left and I was assigned another who ripped my proposal apart and was really unhelpful. His suggestions were also quite ludicrous.

I didn't want to complain but eventually did and was told there were ongoing problems with the supervisor about his attitude!

So I was assigned a third supervisor who I barely had any contact with because I felt so scarred by what had happened. But the main thing was she okayed my original proposal so I could just get on with it.

I'm a lecturer, I do understand this must be frustrating for you. You don't say how late you submitted the proposal, but this is probably where things went wrong. We tend to block off time after submission deadlines to provide feedback, if you submit after that then you sort of get squeezed in after whatever work is blocked for that period. It's not as simple as just answering an email, if you want us to provide decent feedback on a proposal.

It sounds like your supervisor did give you a lot of feedback for your first proposal. You say you assumed you should give up on that idea, but why would you assume that? A supervisor would just tell you if that was the case, if they bothered to give you all that feedback that would usually mean they think it's workable with these revisions. So you might consider going back to that first idea, if you still want to do it.

Did they tell exactly what they wanted in the proposal? In our proposals, we do indeed expect the student to do a preliminary literature review (otherwise there's no way for them to know whether the project is feasible) and also at least a basic idea of their methodology. These are very standard elements of a proposal so they should have told you that, I hope they did.

Finally, I would not take 'limited availability' to mean they will not look at anything until mid January. The problem is that this is actually a very busy time for most academics, this is usually when a tonne of Term 1 marking comes in to be completed before the holiday, on top of which we have to prep for Term 2. If the proposals were due in October, your supervisor has not set aside any time for dealing with them now. So I would think she's saying she will probably look at it but cannot say exactly when nor can she have a long back and forth about it.

Try not to be discouraged, this part is frustrating but it will get sorted and then you still have a really long time left before the deadline.

Approval late Jan for a summer submission is totally doable. My first idea was shit and done to death. You're looking for a gap in literature to justify your RQ. I had an online meeting with my supervisor and we came up with a good RQ. I never met him. I had maybe four online meetings with him and did fine.

Get your question sorted and get your ethical approval ASAP.

Hi, OP -

Another lecturer here. I completely agree with @dreamingbohemian

This isn’t just another email. This is a big job!

If you get organised it is possible to write a fine thesis in the remaining time. If you still have any enthusiasm for the first topic and you are further ahead with it, I would go with that one. If you feel you won’t be able to work effectively, go with the second. But it is important to give some thought to presenting yourself as organised and on top of things from now on.

BTW if you submitted an unsigned proposal in my School it would be rejected out of hand and the supervisor might well be informed. Not a good look.

I also agree with @dreamingbohemian's interpretation of it. Students so often forget supervisors have an awful lot else on their plate, and if you don't submit in the allotted time, you then get to the back of the queue. Also in my subjective experience, I get very grouchy at this time of year because I have so many references to write for students who are applying for PhDs and MPhils. This is hours of unpaid work and it puts me in a mindset to ringfence my tiny morsels of free time and not let students who subbed late just eat into it casually.

Thanks all - useful to get some other perspectives. I do appreciate them.

Just to clarify - there was a proposal deadline every few weeks from end of October onwards. Barely anyone on the course met the first one - it wasn’t really expected.

I am a teacher myself so I get what it’s like to be busy. It seems different to the world that I exist in, where sometimes it feels like all the other work only starts when you finish your teaching. I guess we approach work differently. Each to their own.

My supervisor didn’t like my first idea. They said they thought there wasn’t enough literature to justify it (bearing in mind they don’t have experience in my research area or context). I thought that was the point - to carry out a study to find something out that doesn’t already exist. But apparently not; that’s for PHDs. I’ve had to let that go!

You are right - the module tutor won’t accept an unsigned proposal so I just have to wait for my supervisor to have a block to time to look at my work and no doubt have some things that need changing, which they then won’t be able to look at for another period of time… and so on. I’m going to get on with my lit review over Christmas while I wait. It’s reassuring to know lots of you think I still have time even if the approval takes much longer.

I just hate that the supervisor has such a gate keeper role in my qualification. I hadn’t anticipated it being like this but I guess I just have to accept it.

I thought that was the point - to carry out a study to find something out that doesn’t already exist

I have a teaching role in a university and a large part of my job is supporting MA/MSc students with their theses.

No, you can't effectively at MA level do a thesis on something that doesn't exist and / or has no coverage in the literature.

The idea is to survey the literature as comprehensively as you can, and identify a research question, which may come from gaps in the literature. But there still needs to a context in the literature to write about.

The advice you have got here from the lecturers is very helpful. I would take that on board.

Regarding timeline, you still have plenty of time following approval in January, to submit in the summer

In terms of your proposal, don't forget practicality too - are there the resources (primary & secondary) to support your research? Can you easily access them? In terms of your own research, can you easily investigate your research question with suitable methodology eg surveys, focus groups, structured interviews & so on?

Another lecturer here, agree with PPs. This time of year is hellish for marking, reference requests (I've spent 6 hours this week writing references), citizenship duties like committee deadlines, our own research etc.

I wouldn't just sit back though, I'd do more literature review. I always suggest that my students do a full lit review (4-5k words) and then edit it down for the proposal (1k our of a 2k proposal) because the topic is rarely altered drastically, it's the methods/application that changes most. This way it saves the student having to re-read everything all over again to write the lit review and means they're already ahead of the game for the final write up.

I just hate that the supervisor has such a gate keeper role in my qualification.

I don't see it this way. A good supervisor will make sure the proposal stands up & can be researched. They are not helping you if they allow you pursue a topic that isn't feasible.

Sometimes that means focusing the topic, or taking a broader perspective. They are well practiced in research so their advice is crucial.

I also think they are being very fair by being clear with you regarding their availability.

I guess we approach work differently. Each to their own.

It's not about 'approaching work differently', it is that the work itself is completely different. Most lecturers are only allotted 40% of their time for teaching, the rest is for research and admin. An awful lot has to be fit into that 40%, that's two days a week basically.

I thought that was the point - to carry out a study to find something out that doesn’t already exist. But apparently not; that’s for PHDs.

Your supervisor is right. You only have 12-15K words and less than a year for the MA, that is not enough to do something meaningful on a topic with almost no existing research.

I just hate that the supervisor has such a gate keeper role in my qualification.

I understand it feels this way but honestly they are looking out for your own interests. I supervise MA dissertations myself, one of the most important aspects of this role is preventing a situation where students spend months on a dissertation only to find out late in the day that they cannot actually complete it to a good standard. I don't think most supervisors would sign off on a project where there is not a good base of literature and the student was not sure of their methodology. Those would be signs that things could go very wrong.

Don't do something that is done to death but equally, you need to justify your RQ.

UG, they don't care how overdone it is. They do care slightly more at PG.

You're looking for a gap in the literature but you also need literature to have a literature review 🙃

If they give you the green light on something a bit 'blah' then I'd be concerned that they didn't care enough or thought you're only going to pass. When they see something in you, they don't want 'blah', they want you to reach your potential.

It's a lot easier for them to go along with it without question.

So, you missed the first deadline because you hadn’t decided on a topic (could be read as “I hadn’t done enough reading around to know what I could research”)

Then you submitted a topic late, got a LOT of specific feedback. So your supervisor rearranged other work to offer you detailed and specific comments to help you develop your topic.

But you decided that this detailed feedback wasn’t helpful, (or you didn’t take the time to absorb and understand it) so you decided to change topic.

A week before Christmas, you are now outraged that your supervisor is not available until mid-January to comment AGAIN on another topic.

You’re lucky they’re still prepared to supervise you, and have had the courtesy to give you a realistic estimation of when they can give you feedback on a three times delayed submission.

My supervisor didn’t like my first idea. They said they thought there wasn’t enough literature to justify it (bearing in mind they don’t have experience in my research area or context). I thought that was the point - to carry out a study to find something out that doesn’t already exist. But apparently not; that’s for PHDs. I’ve had to let that go!

You sound like a bit of a nightmare. Your supervisor knows a heck of a lot more than you. That is a given.

Feedback is a gift. It’s up to you what you do with it, but I don’t see much desire to learn from an expert in your posts.

We don’t give feedback because we “like” or “dislike” a topic. We give feedback and advice - expert supervision- based on our assessment of how likely a topic is to enable you to show your ability and thinking in the best way possible.

But if you know more about that than an experienced academic, go ahead on your own!

We are so busy right now. Sometimes it is three days or more before I get a long enough time slot to think about something to the degree I need to, to give feedback. You could ask to meet with your supervisor for 30 min in the new year. Talking it though in person might help.

@EasterIsland Thank you. A lot of your interpretation of the situation is incorrect but I can’t post more as it would be too identifying.

Thank you all - it’s been very useful to get different perspectives on this and I feel reassured that all is not lost because of the time this is taking.