Choosing DC's Degree Course & University

[MessyandLost]

DS's school will support him with A-levels and applications for university. However, they don't provide any direction or information about the courses and universities so basically we have to do all the research on our own.

His prediction for GCSEs is all 9s. He is very bright. So I believe there is almost nothing he cannot do but only if he knows what he wants to do...DS has no idea what he likes to do and what is available out there yet. He definitely needs help from experts.

How does your DC know/decide what they want to do at university? Does their school invite people from universities and experts in wider areas so DC get to see and hear their stories? I feel DS needs this kind of experience...

We are of course thinking to visit some universities but DS needs to be more informed so could narrow down his targets... I am seriously thinking to move him to a school with better support after GCSEs but if other schools are equally rubbish about providing information and experiences the move would be just a waste... I don't know if his school's attitude is normal or outrageous...

I feel totally lost... Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

If he's not taken GCSEs yet of course they won't have started any additional university prep yet! In year 12 the school will go through the basics and encourage them to visit universities in the summer term, in September of year 13 they help them apply.

Until they have GCSEs and have started a levels it's very hard to get any accuracy in predictions of grades because the step up to a levels is huge - one of my DD's got straight a*'s at gcse but only b's at a level, the other got A's and b's at GCSEs but 4 A's at level!

OK, so DC's school do actually do this. They have a day a year where they ask local companies to send in representatives and they have a school careers fair and let the students wander round.

I accept there might be the odd student who suddenly realises they can do xy career, but by and large, it's a lot of information all at once, the reps are a bit random (DH has been one and he has a job the average 16 year old would not understand) and it's more useful for giving them an insight into the world of work and that there are lots of careers out there, rather than being something that helps students choose future careers. And most of the students just treat it like a jolly and don't get much out of it anyway.

The fact I'd forgotten they do it until you mentioned in, probably demonstrates how useful I think it is.

I think you are wanting schools that provide individual tailored information. I'm not sure this exists in the state sector.

Goggling some university prospectuses is a good idea. Really need to work backwards from that in order to know what A levels to take.

But actually I do recommend this summer taking him to a local (ish) university open day if he's never been on a campus just tk see what they are like - see the halls, the sports facilities and any subjects he's leaning towards but mostly just familiarise what a university is about, is it for him - my dc grew up going onto campus as their df is a researcher and their childcare was on site, for others they just feel big campus universities aren't for them

EY accountancy apprenticeship

For those who like maths, economics etc, also consider accountancy. I know someone who is doing Transactions with EY and loving it. He went to EY straight from school.

Accountancy isn’t all book-keeping and auditing, sone areas are more business related and strategy. Maybe worth considering in addition to uni, to keep his options open.

My children's private schools all provided careers guidance, but even so the teenager picked the A level subjects and degree.
Your son sounds very bright so this is my path for him as there are 1000s of things to choose pays to narrow it down. Also if he can have fund earning a lot of money and that will make his life heaps easier then let us go down that route for him.

1. Oxbridge attempt but realising most applicants will not get in even with four A star at A level. So we will p ick for him Cambridge, Durham, Bristol, Exeter and Nottingham as back up in case A levels do not go so well. He needs to be drafting his personal statement by end of lower sixth. If he is to change schools for lower sixth then get on with that ASAP so he has stability.
2. A level Subjects - depends on preferred career. A levels Maths, Further Maths, , Biology what about chemistry? My doctor brother did Maths, further maths, biology and chemistry and read medicine at Cambridge. Keep music as a hobby. SO if he would like medicine then perhaps do my suggestion. If he might be a lawyer as I am (and 4 of my children) then he could certainly do maths, biology and music or maths, biology and whatever his language is. I did English lit, history and German for law. he does not need to do law at university first unless he chooses to do so and can do any combination of good traditional A level subjects.
3. University subject - if he is very very bright then pick a subject he really likes. If instead it might be hard to get into his chosen university then pick a subject few people want to do including for Oxbridge as that is then less competitive but you are at the better place.
4. Careers - I am suggesting law or medicine above. Other choices for reasonable levels of earnings and lovely careers including thinkgs like actuary, banking, management consultant, accountant. Then look on linked in at the degrees of those recently hired in those jobs to see what degrees they did first eg accountancy at the big firms will not be needing people to do accountancy at univesity. Law - 50% of lawyers do not do law as a first degree etc.

Thank you so much for all the useful information and advice. I looked through some degrees at several universities and checked the requirements for entry. There are so many different biology-related degrees for instance. But many of them asked for two sciences plus maths so maths/biology/music or language may actually close quite many doors more than I expected. I need to check how DS feels about it. He may think he would swap music/language with chemistry but if he feels he would enjoy music/language more then we'll check what kind of degrees he can do with the combination.

I have decided to proceed with the application for local state sixth forms just to give him some options after GCSEs... I don't want him to feel he is stuck there.

My daughter is deciding on her own career. If he's not up to doing that then maybe university is not the right place for him!

DS is also deciding on his own career and doing his own research. It doesn't mean I should not educate myself so that I could be of any help (or he may not need it from me after all). He is the one who said he wanted to go to university, hence I am trying to understand the situation. I seriously don't understand what is so bad about it. I would do the same for my Dsis, DH and any close friends who I care about. Like, trying to be supportive and helpful. MN is weird sometimes. People are so sensitive about mum and child things. I am just trying to be a mum to my youngish 15-year-old who is seriously thinking about his future, probably for the first time in his life.

Take no notice of the posters who say he should be doing it himself.

All young people are different and mature at different rates. I think you are doing a good job of supporting him and helping him to look for the best facilitating pathway. You have already had good advice from posters, for example, making you think about your Ds A level combination.

I really wish my parents had been a bit more clued up to help me make decisions that have long reaching consequences. I have actually learned quite a lot from Mumsnet myself (and posters like Xenia) in order to steer my Ds into a pathway that will hopefully lead to a fulfilling and successful career. It might not work out but all you can do is offer knowledgeable support.

Also, I would like to say that every child is different. I don't dream of criticising or attacking those parents who leave DC to decide everything at 15 because I am sure some DCs are capable and obviously the parents are confident that they are. But it doesn't mean all 15-year-olds should be like that. I would never ask DS to be the same as someone else. DS is DS. I'll follow his pace. If he needs help I'll put my hand out without any hesitation. I would do the same to anyone who I care about. Anyway, I will continue researching and educating myself and will share the information with him when and if I think it's necessary. But DS is the decision maker, obviously.

I'm Surprised you found lots of Bioscience degrees asking for Bio, Maths and another science tbh. UCL Durham and Imperial (world class) ask for Bio plus just one other science (science includes Maths). I wouldn't say Bio, M and a language means he couldn't go onto a highly selective Bioscience degree.

Cross-posted. Thank you Turmerictolly

titchy, oh really? I checked UCL and Imperial though... But it was a late night. Did I misread them??? I'll check again...!

A useful feature as a previous poster has said, is to look at the uni stats for the courses your Ds is interested in. All of the top uni's say 'maths plus one science etc minimum' but when you drill down into the stats or attend the open day and speak to staff and students, they tell a different story. For eg, at Cambridge for natural sciences the small print tells you '95% of offer holders had A level Maths, 80% FM, 86% Physics' for example. Those aren't the real figures but just illustrating that people need to look behind the general admissions requirements.

Really good point. I do see those requirements are the absolute minimum and applicants are usually far more high achievers so I totally understand that there will be quite a gap between the word on the surface and the reality...

Typical Natural Sciences entrants (A Level and IB)
Natural Sciences (Biological)
For 2017, 2018 and 2019 entry, the majority of entrants from an A Level background achieved at least grades AAA* (76% of entrants). These successful applicants typically took Mathematics (99%), Further Mathematics (37%), Biology (98%), Chemistry (96%) and Physics (26%). In addition to Mathematics A Levels, the percentage of entrants taking all three of Biology, Chemistry and Physics was 22%, two of the sciences 75% and only one of the sciences was 3%. For the same period, the majority of IB entrants achieved at least 43 points overall and/or grades 777 at Higher Level.

This is from the Cambridge website for Natural Sciences (Biological pathway).

That's A star Astar A star.

Liverpool uni ask for chemistry preferably alongside biology. They could consider alternate options.

www.liverpool.ac.uk/courses/2023/biological-sciences-bsc-hons#entry-requirements

That really doesn't mean that a second science is needed to be considered though. It just means the course attracts kids who focus purely on sciences!

An applicant offering a language and FM (as well as the required two sciences) and applying for the year abroad flavour of the degree will find they have the same subjects as everyone else!

@MessyandLost I did similar to what you are doing. There is absolutely no harm in showing the breadth of opportunities out there. The biology courses that would like chemistry tend to be biochemistry (surprise) and biomedical. DS is at Durham studying biology having not done chemistry. They even accept psychology as a second science.
www.durham.ac.uk/study/courses/c107/#entry-requirements-927563

My dd never had a clue when choosing a levels what she wanted to do

Join the WIWIKAU Facebook group for really useful info.
Look at other school sixth forms and compare results to sixth form colleges, consider if he is self motivated enough to do well at college or if he will coast. (And whaere he wants to go).
Our state school did early extra curricula futures sessions and visits to Oxford and Bristol for students with high predicted grades. Look for university summer school programmes aimed at post gcse age.
Look at university league tables for his chosen degree, he should apply for unis in the top 20/25 imo.
Yes he should choose but having an engaged parent who cares enough to find out all the info and feed it through in manageable chunks, takes you for visits and open days, doesn't limit your aspirations to local only (where circumstances don't otherwise limit) is a huge advantage in academic opportunity and future career.
There is loads of old virtual open day talks online. Some unis do online taster courses.

Unless a very vocational career is on the cards - medicine, law, pharma, dentist, engineering for example (and you’d think that if he had an inkling fur anything along those lines he would have expressed it already) then the best advice is to choose the subject they are best at / most interested in and aim for the best Uni available for the likely grades at A level. This will keep most doors open while he decides what career. Most 18 year olds have no idea what job they want (or even any knowledge of what careers are even available). That’s entirely normal.

But most of all you are too early to even think about this right now - support him through the GCSE and then regroup when he starts his A levels.

There's a lot of judgy people on here. Of course we want to support our children with their choices!
Come and join us on this thread OP

Year 11 22/23 support thread. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4615911-year-11-2223-support-thread