Year 2 entry into Scottish universities?

[NigellaAwesome]

DD is currently doing A levels. Predicted 2 A* and an A planning to study biological science.

She was an early applicant, and has put 2 Scottish universities on her application - Edinburgh & St Andrews.

As I understand it, Scottish courses are 4 years, due to Scottish highest being completed a year earlier than A levels.

I had heard that sometimes A level students can enter directly into year 2 on Scottish undergraduate courses, but not sure if this is true?

Has anyone any knowledge?

My daughter’s friend went straight into year 2. He was at school in Ireland though, so I am not sure how that compares ?

Yes its possible. DS1 was on the St Andrews online open day talk thing this evening and they spoke about it then.

I think she would have had to apply for year 2 direct entry on her UCAS form though

I did ‘direct entry’ in Biology at Edinburgh (over 15 years ago mind). I was offered it after I applied. I assumed everyone with good A levels (as opposed to highers) took direct entry if offered it. In reality very few people do it. About 5 in my year of 200 students! It was hard work. Living with first years, being a ‘fresher’ with associated social life but doing a Y2 course. Same in Years 3 and 4 which were years 2 & 3 for my friends from halls. It Meant I did my finals when none of my friends were (apart from those on my course, which did mean I made great friendships there in my final year). I finished a ‘year early’ and so felt totally justified to go travelling whilst my friends all did their finals and then got a graduate job at the same time as them! The reverse was that in first year bio sciences students have loads of opportunity to study (aka do hardly any work and do a lot of partying) areas they might have interest in a much wider field eg philosophy, physics, history of science or logic. It’s really a personal choice and I think important factor us how self motivated she is. She will be going against the grain and making her life harder than it needs to be - but ‘saving’ a year of uni (fees, living costs etc). In my experience no employer notices the difference.

Thanks @Mrsfenchurch that's very interesting.

@Ciri there was an open evening tonight? I think we are hopelessly uninformed. I'll get DD to make more enquiries. Thanks

Yes it's an option but in an online information session last year the head of faculty said he thought doing the first year was essential for everyone & it was academically robust. As a RUK applicant the chances of getting in are slim. DS applied to St A on 3 x A star predictions for biological sciences and didn't receive an offer. Turns out the rate of success as a RUK applicant is lower than an application to Cambridge. You can find the stats on the universities websites. Hopefully your DD will be successful. It is a lovely town.

It is ridiculously hard to get in. They only have 2000 undergraduates in each year group. That’s across all subjects. About half of these are then overseas students and then Scottish students get priority in various categories.

it’s one of those that you should never set your heart on since they turn down thousands of straight A star students every year.

Crucially however, applying to St Andrews with such a low chance of success (for a RUK student) can mess up your other first choice since they offer first to American and other overseas students (since they bring in the cash). This means most other offers are held back until May. If your other first choice was York for example, the good accommodation would be long gone.

Just to give a different experience as to when offers are received. My DC is at St Andrew's and received an offer in March, in time for an offer holders day also in March - so clearly many offers were made by then.

When we were in Edinburgh open day, we spoke to a Scottish student (biomedical sciences) I asked the same question as in the subject talk, this was on the slides 2nd year entry which didn't make sense to me. So, in Scottish system A levels are counted as almost the first term of the first year course so if they get the grades they have the option to apply 2nd year entry which has a different UCAS code when applying. So first year of university is almost like a foundation year- she said especially for chemistry and biology it is like revising of A level subjects, the real deal starts in year 2. English students can also apply for 2nd tear entry but the entry criteria is higher grades than first year entry. Hope I managed to explain what I heard

Bear in mind that the line about Scottish Highers being completed a year earlier than A levels as a justification for 2nd year entry is very misleading. The majority of Scottish university applicants will go on to do 3 Advanced Highers in S6 (Y13), thus mirroring much of A level type of work. So it is not a case of "behind" Scottish students and "advanced" RUK ones! At both St Andrews and Edinburgh there will be a good number of international students, many of whom will be older than A level students when they start a 4 year degree. The curriculum has to cater to all these starting points.
Also to take into account: the Scottish university 4 year degrees have a breadth that the RUK 3 year degrees do not, with optional courses outside the core subject normally being possible in at least the first year. Quoting from the degree structure for Biological Sciences at Edinburgh, "In each year of your studies, you will have compulsory courses that you have to take, and you will also be able to choose optional courses. In the early years these can come from across the University and in the later years they tend to be more biological sciences focussed....As optional course choices, lots of our students choose to take some chemistry courses specifically designed for biologists. You can also choose from courses offered across the University such as business, history, geography or a language. The choice is flexible, so long as it fits in with your timetable of core courses. The depth and breadth of knowledge gained in your year 1 courses will prepare you for your year 2 studies."

Having had my two Scottish dc go through the Scottish university system, and having worked all my career in a Scottish university, I wouldn't recommend 2nd year entry, for social as well as academic reasons.

Yes, you can enter the second year of Scottish universities that offer 4-year degrees directly with good A-level grades.

When I did my degree I chose not to. The first year was a good run-in to university life that allowed me to explore some non-academic experiences, and pick-up a couple of optional subjects not core to my degree. It's also a very useful year to get used to the pace of university teaching, as well as develop social skills. By the end of the first year the science subjects have overtaken A-level, so coming in at the second year means hitting the ground running from the start - amongst a peer group that have already had a year to establish social relationships and familiarise themselves with university life.

I had St Andrew's provisionally down as my first choice during the first year of A-levels, but when I visited (at that time there was a week-long taster visit you could apply for as a sixth former) I realised that it has a very small town atmosphere - bordering on claustrophobic. Some people may like that, but I decided on a bigger city instead.

We went to the Edinburgh open day with DS who is in year 12. He is interested to apply there for Maths, they have a large number (I think 60?) of direct entries into 2nd year Maths. For Maths, the year 2 entries have to have Maths and further Maths A level at a high grade and for year 1 entry they only need Maths A level.

Those doing 2nd year entry for Maths at Edinburgh do a mixture of year 1 and 2 units and so loose the flexibility to do eg a language or something totally different for some of their units. I guess the structure must be similar for year 2 entry for other subjects,

2nd year entry students are treated like year one entry students in relation to University accommodation

As a RUK applicant the chances of getting in are slim.

I thought that the order of difficulty to get in (offer ratio) is

1. Scottish students (that used to include EU students when my dc joined) - most difficult to get in

2. Rest of UK - easier to get in

3. Rest of World - easiest to get in

So an English applicant will have a better chance of an offer than a Scottish one.

@Gummibär In the talk last year they said
Scottish students take priority (fair enough). You'd have to check the conversion rate from apply to start there.
then overseas (£££)
then RUK

But do check the actual numbers of offers to applicants (offer rate) to check this.

Remember that Scottish students don't pay any fees, so the Universities in Scotland make much more money from English than Scottish students !

I am bumping this thread as when I posted last year, I didn't get any responses. My DS is likely to firm Edinburgh, grades required AAA predicted grades 4x A he is planning to go for 2nd year entry for MMaths (so still a 4 year degree) . They say that they have units that they do to cover the first year Maths along side the second year ones plus one free choice which could be anything.

anyone's DC done this?

@mushroom3 my dc is at St Andrews and did direct entry to second year as a Scottish student. Now in the final semester of the Mmath no regrets as only ever wanted to study maths. However if you want breadth of subjects then opt for 1st year. My Dc didn't have to make a decision on that until advising in the 1st week of the semester.

My nephew did for engineering. Scottish applicant with 3 AHs. There was a small group of them. Had less flexibility in modules and had to hit ground running rather than coasting but has worked out fine for him plus results don't count for final degree class (other than having to pass). Went to freshers events and had uni halls with other 1st years.

DD has friends who did 2nd year entry for pharmacy and maths. I think becoming more common.

DD has applied for a biomedical sciences degree at Edinburgh. We had a chat with a tutor about 2nd year entry at the open day. She said 2nd year entry is competitive with only a very limited number of places available. Also it makes for a very challenging 1st year as they have to jump in at a higher level, and they usually struggle a bit during their first year on the course. She felt they do mostly catch up by the 3rd/4th year and there are always students who enjoy the challenge. Some get discouraged by starting “behind” though. Also they lose the benefits of being able to take a broader first year with courses outside the department. In the light of this DD decided she would want to do all 4 years, particularly as she would like to do a year abroad in the 3rd year.

@Ciri , checked this when DS2 applied to St Andrews 5 years ago. There were FOI request stats you could look at which confirmed what you say. It's hardest for Scottish students to get in on most courses,or at least it was a few years ago, due to the very strict cap on funded places ( and I suspect a greater percentage of Scottish students apply to St Andrews, even if it's a long shot, especially if they are only applying to Scottish unis as most students do). Scottish applicants to DSs (popular)course had a very small success rate, I seem to remember less that 15%.
There are places that are ring fenced for Scottish students as they are funded by the Scottish Government but there aren't very many of them, it's a different pot of places so they aren't competing directly with rUK students.
I admit I pop up on threads quite a lot trying to point this out and should probably chill out about it, I suppose I feel a bit offended on behalf of DS as he had the equivalent of 3A*s and still had to wait ages to hear.

Thanks all, I can see the issue with the stars has re-emerged! He has decided he will go for 2nd year entry, partially due to cost, but also as his degree will still be 4 years and he is doing further Maths A level. He is aware that his first year will count towards his degree and that he will only have one free choice in his first year, so less flexibility. He really wants to do lots of Maths and actually is quite happy not to have lots of choice! For Maths at Edinburgh there is an exam for those wishing to do second year entry at the beginning of the year, so those not passing will be doing first year entry anyway.

Yes. It's all about the money.
A Scottish student has their fees paid by the Govt (not sure of internal rate)
An English/Welsh student has to pay c.£9.5K
An overseas student can pay c.£20K

There's talk of the numbers of places for Scottish students in y1 being cut.