Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Essex university

84 replies

DinkyDaisy · 22/11/2022 17:10

Well, we are painfully reaching the end of the UCAS form experience.
4000, character personal statement has been so hard for ds to do as a wordy boy!
Now for last option on choices and we have stumbled upon Essex University.
It looks good for politics/ International Relations.
Anyone have experience of the university? There is a mini open day on Saturday we might attend.
Thanks all.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 24/11/2022 17:44

So you think highly skilled mathematicians cannot do that job or have the skills to interpret stats in the political world? Are you saying they not capable of understanding politics? I honestly doubt that. It’s also a pretty niche job. Games with numbers? Surely that’s what politicians do every day?

DinkyDaisy · 24/11/2022 17:45

He wouldn't want to do a maths degree but good at it.
He loves politics. Electoral processes, forms of governance etc. MUN fan, etc.
Listens to political podcasts for fun...

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 24/11/2022 17:58

Has he looked at Hull, OP??

DinkyDaisy · 24/11/2022 18:14

I shall get him to.
Last ucas form meeting Tuesday...

OP posts:
DinkyDaisy · 24/11/2022 18:15

He is behind others as doing personal statement a painful experience!

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 24/11/2022 21:25

@DinkyDaisy
i wasn’t suggesting a maths degree. But political data analysis can be done by numerate grads. However if he likes the standard political curriculum, then go for the highest rated universities for this subject. Also look at employment stats. Look at where he might want to live and is he likely to be politically active? What about societies and experience prior to getting a job? The Complete University Guide puts Hull at 50. Essex and Hull don’t stack up regarding employability. A few Dc might get plum jobs but vast numbers don’t get much at all.

Phphion · 25/11/2022 01:39

TizerorFizz · 24/11/2022 17:44

So you think highly skilled mathematicians cannot do that job or have the skills to interpret stats in the political world? Are you saying they not capable of understanding politics? I honestly doubt that. It’s also a pretty niche job. Games with numbers? Surely that’s what politicians do every day?

If you work with data, you need to understand what that data actually is, both in terms of content and context. This is how you determine what you can use the data for, the correct statistical techniques to use and the validity of your findings. Simple numeracy is not enough, you need to understand what your numbers are.

Politics is a vast subject area. It is not just about being an MP or predicting the outcome of elections. If you think of all the government departments and what their policies cover – business, health, education, employment, the benefits system, justice, migration, international trade and so on, all that is politics, and all of it needs people who understand those specific issues and can analyse data about them whether as part of some level of government, the civil service or elsewhere. Sometimes some of the data could be analysed by someone who was simply a good mathematician with some limited passing knowledge, and some of it is more in the domain of economists, social statisticians, behavioural scientists and so on, but there is a lot of work that can, and should, be done by people who know about politics.

So, for example, in forecasting of real world events, you build certain assumptions into your modelling simply because you have to due to the complexity and uncertainty of real things. A numerate person could easily build a model containing anything they want and run numbers but it is your knowledge of the topic and of the context in which your existing data was collected that allows you to assess whether your theoretical assumptions are reasonable and to understand things like exchangeability and stationarity, which in effect determine the extent to which you can assume that models built using data on things that have already happened can be used to predict things that will happen in the future and what statistical techniques you can use to improve the predictive validity of your model.

Similarly, due to politics dealing with complex real-world phenomena, there are an enormous number of potentially confounding factors that mean that while something may appear to directly correlated with something else, or even show causal inference, actually there are one or more factors that are mediating that relationship. Even if you had data for all possible confounding variables, which you wouldn’t, trying to test all of them in regressions because you have no real knowledge of what factors might be important to include would come with a high risk of spurious correlations and alpha errors appearing as a result of data dredging, as well as collinearity and multicollinearity caused by your explanatory variables being too closely correlated with each other. Without knowledge of your data as anything other than abstract numbers it is much more difficult to prevent these problems, and things like omitted variable bias, to spot them when they do occur and decide what, if anything, you should do about them. You can do nothing with what you have found because you don't know if it means anything at all when applied to the real world or whether you have just found some nice patterns in some numbers that are meaningless or even actually misleading.

There is a joke about a bored scientist who decided to do an experiment with some flies:
The scientist captured a fly and sedated it. When the fly came around, the scientist shouted at it to fly away and the fly did.
The scientist then captured another fly, sedated it and cut off one of its wings. When the fly came around, the scientist shouted at it to fly away and the fly flapped its one wing and tried to fly away.
The scientist then captured a third fly, sedated it and cut off both its wings. When the fly came around, the scientist again shouted at it to fly away but the fly didn't even try to fly away.
The scientist's conclusion: If you cut both wings off a fly it becomes deaf.

DinkyDaisy · 25/11/2022 06:00

Thank you phphion for such a thorough explanation. I shall show to my son.

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 25/11/2022 07:04

Great post and I love the scientist joke!

On a really practical method (my DS having applied to three Q Step degrees so knowledge after attending offer days) the QM degree's increase employability as they teach students how to model, how to apply and, importantly, how to use various computer programmes to manipulate and present data - they also have maths and economics modules. Although the Q stands for quantitative, most also teach qualitative methods, which a mathematician won't know and which are important and valuable.

There's a reason why (when they actually listened to them!) SAGE contained people from a range of health, social science, science and mathematical backgrounds and not just pure mathematical modellers.

Piggywaspushed · 25/11/2022 07:04

Sorry, on a really practical note.

TizerorFizz · 25/11/2022 12:17

And all these people come from Essex and Hull universities with not a single Oxbridge or other top university person in sight? Whatever the attributes needed for the job, the lower ranked university grads will still find it more difficult to get jobs. They are not sage destined snd everyone learns on the job if they are intelligent enough. Plus the op’s DS has not said he’s interested in this work. His interests are classic politics. I’m interested to know the backgrounds of the SAGE people. In my view over emphasis on data drove us to all sorts of questionable decisions because common sense as to the aftermath was ditched.

Piggywaspushed · 25/11/2022 13:48

Not going to get into a Covid argument tizer and I didn't suggest members of SAGE came form Hull or Essex at any point!. Was just saying that QM increases employability and Essex is a Q step centre. This is prestigious.

DinkyDaisy · 25/11/2022 16:53

Ds going through Essex courses. They do BA or Bsc and he prefers the bsc. He is interested in the modules on the Q route as well. It is a mini open day so he may not meet politics people but he is going to ask questions on their chat area.
He will put application in and see what comes back...got a range of universities in there...
He does not want to choose a course just because of a university name so is researching modules, contact hours, employment prospects, placement years, etc. He wants effort from the university for his money/ loan...

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 25/11/2022 18:16

Placements are very difficult to obtain. Often advertised but few get them. You apply for your own. Employment prospects are very much slanted towards the higher universities in the league tables. There are some quite big differences. Also employment in what job? Some jobs are pretty mundane.

For some degrees, and job prospects, university (name) really does matter. Contact hours will be low at many research led universities: 6-8 per week is normal. This is because students are expected to research and read as well as be self starters. They won’t be spoon fed like school. Preparing for seminars and doing presentations takes up time too. However this way of working leads to self reliant students who are critical thinkers, which is vital. So don’t be put off by low contact hours but drill down on jobs. The politics students I know have found employment in the voluntary sector and designing poll questions. Both poorly paid.

mynameisbrian · 25/11/2022 18:26

Well my DD is in Essex and has an internship for a top city bank in London. So as long as your DC is driven and whilst Oxbridge is sought after in some areas the rest is an open playing field. I certainly don't care which Uni someone attends or achieved there degree as long as they will fit into my team and display the necessary attributes in interview.

DinkyDaisy · 25/11/2022 18:43

Thank you for your comments. He is not sure what he wants to do but I could see him doing further study. However, who knows. He lives and breathes politics but in a non partisan way. Huge participation in MUN etc, enjoying formulating resolutions. Boring me on electoral systems and very interested in other countries systems. His other A levels maths and history. Gets told off in history for going off on tangents. Needs to learn some control there!

OP posts:
Nicklebox · 25/11/2022 19:12

My eldest ds went to Essex he also took 4 years to complete a 3 year degree course as failed a module and exam in the first year. However the uni were very supportive and he got a first class honors in Computer Science.

TizerorFizz · 25/11/2022 21:51

@mynameisbrian
As I said, Dc apply for placements/internships. The university doesn’t find placements for students but might advertise them. The op seemed to think students might be found placements. Is your Dc studying politics?

AvocadoPlant · 25/11/2022 22:02

Exeter also offer Politics and IR with this Q step programme. However they’re looking for 3xA grades.
Would the school consider reviewing his B prediction at the end of this term and submit UCAS then?

DinkyDaisy · 26/11/2022 07:31

It is good to hear about good pastoral care at Essex. He got a phonecall yesterday checking he was still going to the mini open day. Train strike of course which is likely to impact the day. We will drive but had planned to go by train.
Exeter not on his list but thanks for suggesting.
We have a parent evening on Tuesday but don't think they will change ucas grades. He has been doing better than B in assessments so a shame.
He is planning to defer so can 'stick' if gets offers or start again if results better if he chooses to.

OP posts:
DinkyDaisy · 26/11/2022 07:34

With placements ds quite a self-starter so would expect to have to put effort in to find.
Those who have or have had children at Essex, anything we should look out for whilst there?
Thanks.

OP posts:
DinkyDaisy · 26/11/2022 14:00

On campus all you Essex people. Eaten in Buffalo Joe's and about to look at North Tower accommodation.

OP posts:
DinkyDaisy · 26/11/2022 16:43

Leaving now.
North Tower accommodation a bit cosy cell!
Friendly atmosphere on campus and had 2 pound meal deals in every food place which great in these tough times.
He thinks Surrey still his favourite but Essex will be on the form.

OP posts:
theremustonlybeone · 26/11/2022 18:41

My DD was very clear about her accommodation and is over in Tansley Houses, so has a double bed and only shares shower and toilet with one other. She likes the large kitchen and hang out area on the ground floor. Good luck with it all

DinkyDaisy · 26/11/2022 19:21

Thank you. It is such a huge decision.
Glad working out well for your dd.
The university does have a nice, safe feel and everyone friendly.

OP posts: