Help!!!! Thoughts on Biological Sciences and future career

[Watermelon46]

Dc is year 13 and taking biology, chemistry and maths. (Predicted 3 x A*, 9x 9 at gcse and 1 x 8).

Has discounted medicine, veterinary and dentistry.

Is interested in Biology mainly, and thinks Biological sciences (Birmingham possibly) sounds interesting.

Does not have any idea what to do career wise long term but wants to have high earning potential.

Any thoughts on this course in particular and possible career once completed. Or any experience of other courses which would fit with these A levels?

tia

I was a doctor (of the medical variety). If I had my time again I might well have done a degree in genetics instead of medicine.

Genetics is a really fast growing field. From decoding the genome, you've got the possibility of amazing advances coming in tailoring treatments to people's DNA. Forensic genetics would also be really interesting. Discount fears of eugenics, there's a lot more to it than that!

nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/geneticist

Visiting university departments is key. They focus on different parts of the "biology" spectrum, from micro-biology upwards. PPs have indicated the breadth. Your DD will be drawn to some and not others.
DD studied Biology, did an MSc in ecology and is now a very happy Ecologist. Two of her friends did an MSc which included entrepreneurship: one is in pharma sales (big money) and the other trained as a hospital pharmacist.
It's a vast field, and the first step is choosing a degree course which aligns with her interests.

Thanks all, really interesting

They focus on different parts of the "biology" spectrum, from micro-biology upwards.

Molecular bio upwards

try these links, it's basically using math to understand biology. Needs biologists who can do clever math using computers of course

Cambridge: www.prospects.ac.uk/universities/university-of-cambridge-3692/faculty-of-mathematics-8605/courses/computational-biology-20732

York St. John : www.yorksj.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/biosciences/applied-biosciences-bioinformatics-bsc-hons/ course at York Uni
..
www.uwl.ac.uk/course/undergraduate/bioinformatics-genomics?start=646&option=33 London

Lots of science graduates train in the nhs via the STP route, as someone said, genomics is the most rapidly expanding area, but there's loads of different scientists within the nhs. Pay is band 7 for a qualified scientist which is £40-47k

DS2 got a 1st in biology. He loved maths but chose biology as he found it more interesting , not for any career reasons.
At the time of graduation he still had no idea what career he wanted. He applied for all kinds of grad schemes and was offered two prestigious ones.
He's 24 now and earns £35k in tech.
So a biology degree doesn't confine you to bio careers

Ooh, ok if I watch? My eldest is almost exactly the same (except sadly not sporty). Year 12 though, all 9s (almost) predicted all A*. Rejected medicine/vet/dentist but hasn't replaced those options with something else.

but wants to have high earning potential.

There are many very interesting and varied careers open to those who do a degree in Biological sciences.

However, if high earning potential is important, medicine is a better bet.

@Watermelon46
Lots of the careers posted here are not highly paid. Above average. But not very high. Therefore there is a need to head up somewhere or move to a career that’s highly paid. I’m not saying what DD does and she’s not a scientist. She’s not got a PhD. She earns way more than anyone has posted here. She’s just turned 30. Some of the jobs suggested are very limited in pay. Doctors earn more than most or you have to get rapid promotion in science or you remain a foot soldier. Environmental science is one of the lowest paid sciences. Engineering is better. Physicists do well. Anyone wanting money needs to work out how to advance to the top.

Have you considered a degree in Optometry? Starting salary £40k and flexible

But the average salary is £55,000 which suggests the ceiling is not that high.

Personally I wouldn't focus on the money aspect to be honest. Just get the applications in, get the Bioscience degree and work it out from there. My dc adored molecular bio, having thought it was dull at school, and (currently!) just wants to research, despite the precarious employment.

A high wage is subjective though, no? My family are NMW earners. My salary of 47K is huge in comparison.

I did a year of a Biology degree, and for want of a better word, found it too wishy washy, and transferred to a Microbiology degree after my first year - I had to start from scratch, but I didn’t mind.

YY to Bioinformatics - I’m doing a Masters in it next year, was supposed to do it in 2020, but, Pandemic.

Also look at biochemistry options. There is a lot of interesting research going on at a molecular level which seems to fall under either biomedical engineering or biochemistry. Having strong maths is very valuable.

DD took an intercalated degree in biomedical engineering as part of her medicine degree, and still wavers a bit about whether research or medicine is her goal. (She was the same when she was your DS' age - advice she got then was that medicine kept more options open. In her case she was actively interested in medicine.) She focussed on the biomechanics side, but there were plenty of options that focussed on biochemistry. The degree came under Imperial's engineering department and she therefore gets stuff from graduate recruiters. Some of the starting salaries being offered are extra-ordinary, though I assume they are finance jobs needing staff who understand bio tech investment.

I would get your DS to read course descriptions of the various related fields to get a sense of what is out there, and what appeals most. Presumably because of his sport Imperial is out, but it might be worth trawling through their website as their range of options is pretty extensive. And then look to see who else offers similar.

Can anyone advise. My eldest was thinking of medicine, but to be honest, didn't want to be dealing with patients. If she did a five year medicine degree, could she then branch off into research without doing the F1 and F2 years? It seems the best medical research jobs are for medical doctors.

Obviously there are different perspectives as to what 'high earning' means but you can certainly earn very comfortably with a biosciences background in pharma and the related consultancies, in patent law, in healthcare consulting, in biotech or in data analytics.

I don't want to be too outing but after quite a few years in modestly paid research jobs and other bits and bobs I moved into one of the above and after 2.5 years earn £70k, with the potential to go higher. Friends with similar backgrounds who took less roundabout routes are on £100k+ base salary and I wouldn't like to guess what they receive on top in terms of bonuses, shares etc.

I'm not saying that money is the be all and end all - I could probably be earning more if I wanted to but I enjoy what I do, my work life balance is good and I can hardly complain about my salary. But as you said she was interested in earning potential I thought I'd give some details.

I also agree with the pp who said that earning potential with a medicine degree is potentially better, but it doesn't sound like she's done the necessary extra things (work experience etc) that would make her competitive for a medicine degree at this point. Also, medicine is a very hard degree to get through if you're not really motivated by the subject, and it's always easier to succeed when you are enjoying what you are doing.

Kendodd, one pathway seems to be to peel off after an intercalation. So either a six year degree or a five year course that allows for intercalation. (Note quite a number of five year courses restrict external intercalations.)

The intercalation DD took at Imperial had about five slots for people to continue on to a PhD. She was an external student so, unlike internal students, would not have been granted the leave of absence. Her sights are still largely set on working as a Doctor within a mutli disciplinary research team. But to do that she both needs to complete her F1 and F2 and probably her specialist training, and there are a lot of unknowns in the process in terms of being able to access the right training. If she did not enjoy medicine she could have simply carried on with the PhD and dropped out of medicine. It would not have been a waste as when she came to do project work with her engineering peers, her medical training and experience with patients were clearly an asset.

I hope that helps, though I don't think I would advise anyone to start on medicine if they don't like patients. Non medicine courses will have more science and probably feel more comfortable.

She will be dealing with patients throughout her undergraduate career as a medical student, and can be failed and kicked out if she makes a hash of that, never mind the academic stuff. In fact if admissions get a sniff of it, she won't get in in the first place.

The usual advice is that if you have a medical degree but don't want to work as a doctor, you should at least do your foundation years to get full registration, then leave after that.

I'd say firstly, that if she doesn't want to be dealing with the general public (which is what "patients" are), then she's done herself a huge favour by recognising it at this stage, well done to her for the insight!; secondly - no, look for an alternative career path that isn't so public-facing.

I would also add that the sort of research DD is interested in, involves patients. Which is in part why they recruit specialist doctors as part of the group. What appeals to her is that it would be a smaller number of patients over a longer time, which she thinks might be more satisfying.

Can anyone advise. My eldest was thinking of medicine, but to be honest, didn't want to be dealing with patients. If she did a five year medicine degree, could she then branch off into research without doing the F1 and F2 years? It seems the best medical research jobs are for medical doctors.

The best medical research jobs are for medical doctors with full GMC registration and a licence to practise. A medicine graduate who hasn't done F1 isn't a qualified doctor. She would just be someone with a bachelor's degree that had taken 5 years instead of 3.

As others have said, medical school admissions teams would want to keep out people who don't intend to work as doctors. It costs close to £200,000 to produce a medical graduate, of which the student only pays £37,000 in tuition fees. Most of the remainder comes from the NHS, and they will not be happy about paying for students who won't work for the NHS at the end of it.

And someone who doesn't want to work with patients would have a pretty miserable (and probably unsuccessful) time at medical school, since that's what medical students spend at least half of their time doing.

For money I highly recommend investment banking or management consultantancy, or perhaps law but that’s a different degree. I’d suggest she aim for a management consultancy role with a focus on pharma clients. If she is prepared to work extremely hard then she could be on £200k by her early thirties. But, the hours suck if she wants kids.

If she’s money focused then be careful she doesn’t get steered down an academic path. There are many admirable jobs in biological academia, but lucrative they are not.

Biology was my favourite subject. Went on to red brick University to do Pharmacology undergraduate then masters in Clinical Biochemistry. In my opinion Oxbridge is not the best place for the sciences. I now work for big pharma in regulatory affairs - which involves obtaining and maintaining medicine authorisations with health authorities, including clinical trial work. Six figure salary by mid-30s. Very flexible and enjoyable career. Good luck to him!

*mid-30s due to having children, 2 years of mat leave. Would have been early 30s!

Medcomms networking is a good site if you want to know more about medical writing careers.