University of Keele vs Surrey vs Sussex

[Selok]

Above are my DDs choices as she likes the courses there especially Keele as it offers joint degree. She is looking to apply for forensic science and neuroses in Keele, chemistry with forensic investigations in Surrey and neuroscience in Sussex- her stretches are Edinburgh and Cardiff for neuroscience. Anyone know about Keele? Any ideas on what joint/double honours degree? TIA

@MsGrahamCheese thank you so much! I do hope so! 🤞😊

Sorry to hear that Keele visit didn't live up to expectations OP.

I went to Keele many years ago (got in via clearing after initially taking it off my original list as it seemed too far away from London) and loved it. The campus was beautiful and was a welcomed change from London.

I'll be keeping my fingers and toes crossed that your daughter finds a university that's the right fit.

Kings College London isn’t really representations of a city university. It’s London. It’s very different from Bristol or even Manchester.

@Selok
I think you might find Forensic Science is quire niche. What employers want this branch of science? What’s the competition for the jobs? Far better to do Chemistry in my view as job opportunities are far wider.

There’s a reason RG universities don’t offer it, I’m afraid, it’s not really well respected as a basic science. It’s not broad enough. What job does DD want? What is the success rate of working in this field and earning decent money?

Also in most joint honours degree it’s not 50/50. The core is the same for both but slightly fewer options are taken. The key is choosing the right options. I’m amazed a university doesn’t even recommend it’s own course!!

@TizerorFizz I know what you mean and I totally agree with you. We have been doing a lot of research on this. She wants to be a patent attorney and she needs a solid science degree for that. Or other options are, she is definitely looking to study further in post-graduate law and go into legal counsel in pharmaceutical companies. I work in the clinical research arena and my company and the likes of my company offer a lot of graduate schemes for life sciences graduates. She doesn't have intentions to work for police or becoming a CSI (she is checking the salaries and not impressed) which are thought to be obvious route after forensic science however it is not, there are a lot of other options. Now checking the modules of each uni offering like Keele vs Kent modules for forensic science- they are so different Kent's being more in the science side than criminality. After having other thoughts she is now considering Edinburgh first choice, Surrey second as it is a chemistry degree with some forensic investigation modules. DD likes it.
I agree with you as well about dual honors, I think one let down for my DD was that the tutor herself didn't recommend it- she didn't say in exact words but very much implied that the employers would seek specific skills that you might have missed because of taking two subjects. Yes you have the core modules on both subjects but the optional ones are then limited and compared to the single honors modules vs the dual, for instance in forensic science you would miss a lot like digital forensics, forensic anthropology, lab skills etc

My DD will also be considering Keele when the time comes. We live half an hour away so it seems to make sense. She doesn't want to live on campus.

I do second the PP's thoughts on Stoke on Trent - it truly is a depressing place. If we didn't live close enough to travel, I'd advise her to consider other options.

We are about 3.5 hours away by car. She said the campus looked a bit too spread out she said later. Also, we didn't see that lovely building on every picture of Keele University. That was a let down for me😃I was expecting the campus was surrounded by that beautiful building

You didn't see Keele Hall (and therefore all the beautiful surrounding lake, woods etc)? That's madness, it's a significant chunk of the campus! They appear to be really selling the place short!

@Selok My DD is a barrister. She works with loads of people who have converted to Law. It’s a fact that the vast majority have been to RG universities and Oxbridge is hugely over represented. Bristol, Manchester,, Durham, Exeter, Kings and a few others are popular universities for budding lawyers. Certainly in the competitive areas of law.

I know she’s looking at a niche field. She’s also thinking she needs a niche degree but I think that’s a mistake. These patent jobs are like hens teeth. She may never get one. You cannot train for such a niche area of law straight from university. Law conversion requires a huge number of legal topics. You very often need a top degree in a broad recognized academic subject from a top university to have the best chance.

There are people who convert to law who are experts in their field. So they work with the companies as scientists and then convert. I would still say doing Chemistry and looking at broader employment first is far less risky. Then convert to law. There is no part of the conversion course that is drilling down into patents. Very few people do this work.

@TizerorFizz thanks, and yes it certainly is a niche area, also according to our research you don't even need a law degree to be a patent attorney, there is an outsourced exam scheme that after graduating from science or engineering degree, you could apply for that department in a company and be their trainee patent person than you train on the job, go in the exam and pass of course apparently they are very difficult exams too! So this is one of the things came up on her unifrog quiz stuff that got her interested- neuroscience most certainly in her interest area to do masters or phd - that's why she thought Keele double degree would be great, as forensic science bit is fascinating, and neuroscience piece her specific interest and she thought she could continue with a phd in neuroscience or law one of them - but now Keele is down and looking at more neuroscience and chemistry focus courses
Thanks for your suggestions, very helpful

Unfortunately my DD has had a bad experience at Keele, and so have 2 other girls, - all have been spiked at the on campus SU and another followed back to her room from the SU. None have had much support from uni following the incidents. I wish I’d known to ask how emergencies are handled overnight, where they get help from urgently and what support to expect. Other universities offer much better settling in processes, I’ve been really disappointed with Keele.

@Selok
I do realise the eventual exams are different but you have to think of the route there. I can see a law conversion isn’t necessary but it’s necessary to get a training job. That’s highly competitive. Looking at the profiles of patent attorneys , they seem to have hard science degrees from RG and then post grad qualifications. Some do have law degrees too. It’s clear it’s a slog and definitely one that attracts high achievers. So I would be realistic and aim high for university and subject.

@TizerorFizz yes I totally agree! More researching for us to do still

@singingstones can I please ask where your DS chose to go for neuroscience in the end?

@Selok
He went to Nottingham in the end - loved the campus and the course, they start doing neuroscience (rather than just biology) straight away and he was very keen on that.
4 weeks in and enjoying it so far..

@singingstones thanks so much. My DD now decided to on neuroscience so I will make an excel sheet as well with all options, entry requirements etc