Choosing A'levels - what to do for law degree

[Okki]

DD is currently choosing a 6th form/ college. She currently wants to study law with French at Uni, but we know this could change.

Her preferred A levels are

French
English literature
Music
History
Law
Psychology

Obviously she can't do 6. French she has to do, but she's bilingual so we have been advised by uni admissions she should do 4 A'levels as French will be regarded as the easy option for her.

She hadn't previously considered doing Music as an A'level but is now wondering if it would give her an edge over another humanities subject as it would show a different skill set.

I haven't a clue. I didn't go to university and don't really know how to advise her. DH went to uni in France where its all different.

She's predicted 8/9 for her GCSE Literature, history and Music. She has a 9 for French. She's also on the Oxbridge pathway at school, but we know the chances are slim to non existent for her to get in, but she would like an RG uni.

Can anyone give me any tips for how to advise her. I will ask school/ colleges as well, but some real life experiences would be good too. Thank you.

Oddly a lot of universities don't like law students to have done a law A level.

Same for Economics. Universities want students to be very strong in Maths (ideally Further Maths too), and will teach Economics from scratch!

Thank you to everyone. You've given us lots to think about and to look into. History and Eng Lit are her favourite subjects. She has decided for now to register her interest for 4 subjects - FR, Lit and Hist, the 4th being music which she'll drop if work load too much. She plays an instrument in a registered band outside of school and will be gr7/8 ABRSM anyway, so will have UCAS points for uni applications. Though in teenage fashion may have done a complete about face in a couple of weeks..

Ucas points won’t count for the type of universities she’ll be applying for if she wants to do law. ALevel grades (and EPQ for some) only

In what way would it mot be counted as a proper A level in her case?

Quoting LSE again, as someone has upthread:

In order to help us with this decision, we take into account all information provided on the UCAS application such as nationality, schools attended (pre and post-16), completed language qualifications, normal place of residence and information from your referee. Where it is unclear to us whether the language qualification being taken is providing a significant academic challenge, we may require further information from you or your referee before we make our final decision.

OP, what year was your DD's GCSE in French achieved, and was it taken through the school? Year 10, through her school and / or it's the normal time for MFL GCSEs to be taken at the school (I can think of one which gets everywhere to take their MFL option in , iirc, year 9, unless they have recently changed their policy). Much earlier, out of sync with the year group and / or taken outside of school, and a little flag would possibly be raised.

@MarchingFrogs
Few schools offer GCSEs in y10 now. They need longer for most MFL students. Y11 is normal. They don’t ask for nationality of a parent. People from abroad who live here and have British children, despite being French, German, Spanish etc are never spotted. DCs are British.

I did law a level before law degree. Was good as I hadn't decided on law career when making a level choices and it was a chance to try before you buy. But the a level is basically most of the first year of law degree, so it did get quite repetitive.

None will give a competitive edge if that's what you're after. Recruitment focuses more on rounded individuals- or she should do what she loves.
Good grades are paramount

My DS is currently studying Law and French Law at an RG university. He had offers from the three RG universities he applied to (plus the other good non RG universities he applied to) They didn't seem to think his A level Law was an issue and he enjoyed it.

Few schools offer GCSEs in y10 now

@TizerorFizz that is true - especially as data is collected based on GCSEs sat at the normal time, i.e. at the end of yearv11. But the OP had said that her DD has already taken French GCSE. I was merely pointing out that at least one university, LSE, states ways in which they try to establish whether languages being taken at A level may not have been studied and taken for the intended purpose, so to speak.

Speaking as the spouse of a law prof. Law as a first degree is fine and not boring at all. Conversion course is fine but more debt before you start working

I’m a lawyer. I did History, Geography, Psychology at A level, plus I did AS in English Language (dropped it for the full A Level as I hated it and wished I’d done English literature instead).

Of those options on top French I’d probably go with History, psychology and English literature, but really anything really ‘traditionally academic’ with some essay based courses would be fine (if she likes music do that - it’s a really academic course and I know a lot of lawyers whose first degrees (if they didn’t do law) are music).

I wouldn’t really advise law a level over the either subjects. Unis are ambivalent at best about it, and you’d end up just covering it again at the beginning of first year.

Thank you for this. DD did French GCSE in YR 8 through school. Though it was a Covid year so it was teacher graded. She is a dual national with a very obviously French name. Her French background will be obvious the second she starts to speak French.

As an aside, DH was very impressed with the A'level syllabus and the fact that it wouldn't be an easy ride to score highly, based on the examples of grammar they would be covering.

I did not know this. Thank you. Something else to research and understand.

Ok, wife of a Cambridge Law Professor and director of studies. Neither of those subjects would be as good as English, History, French. Obviously, they wouldn’t put you out of consideration but they are less highly regarded

Presumably that information is stated somewhere (that @@Underneaththearches missed) in the university / department / individual college admissions pages? Is this taking into account the overhaul if A level specifications of a few years back now, or are those specific subjects per se felt to be the least useful to have studied as a precursor to studying Law at undergraduate level at Cambridge? Just curious..

Generally Russell Group want students to have 2 solid academic subjects and one other. Law is very early specialisation so that’s never really a thing, why learn stuff you will be learning in your first year in greater depth? Cambridge has one of the top sixth form colleges in the country (state school) and they don’t offer law as an a level. A decent school will know this.

Just remember we see hundreds of CVs when recruiting trainee solicitors and junior solicitors. They all look the same - 10 grade A/A at GCSE, 3 A grades at A level. 2.1 or First expected at university from a well regarded university (not a former poly). They literally look identical in that regard since without those things you're unlikely to even get past the first sift.

We get dozens of applications for every place we have. It costs a fortune to train a trainee solicitor and its very difficult to do now with home working. We need to make sure they're up to the job.

We need some way to distinguish. We will note that A levels in maths, history, English Lit etc have been taken rather than law, communications, business studies, dance, media, textiles, drama, DT, psychology etc. We are older, some of those A Levels probably didn't even exist and if they did they would have been seen as easier subjects for those who were not as academically inclined. Law is tough as a career. Its academically challenging every single day (obviously not so much if you are doing domestic conveyancing since that's mainly process and form filling but firms increasingly use paralegals for this rather than fully qualified lawyers since it isn't cost effective otherwise).

Like it or not, we also look at your university. A first from Durham is going to be considered harder to have been achieved than a first from the University of Huddersfield - its a different cohort.

I understand parents in particular feeling defensive about the choices their DC have made. I understand sixth form tutors wanting to protect and defend their subjects. But there is no escaping the fact that these things do get noticed.

A child suggesting they want to be a lawyer who has overcome the first hurdle and achieved all 8/9s at GCSE should be guided appropriately. Their suggestion of Business should be guided to Economics, their suggestion of English Language should be guided to English Lit, their suggestion of Law should be guided to RE ( which is really ethics) etc.

I'd also suggest that any sixth former saying they want to do law spends a day sitting in court. It isn't like Suits.

My A stars didn't work on that post.

"10 grade A star/A 3 grade A stars at A level"

Read the criteria of the unis she wants to get in to and stick with that.

She should do History English lit and French.

Cambridge Univ Law Fac page, FAQ:

Are there any subjects I shouldn't be taking?

There are, of course, many other A Level subjects that we haven’t mentioned here, but that doesn’t mean we don’t consider them a valuable part of an application.

Subjects such as Drama and Theatre and Art and Design can be appropriate preparation for certain courses, for example, English or Architecture. However as Cambridge does not typically offer vocational subjects, A Levels such as Business, Photography or Media Studies may not be as appropriate.

If you are considering a Vocational Level 3 course as one of your three choices, we would advise you to check the entry requirements for your chosen course, as they are not usually accepted. If you wish to take any of these subjects and you want to apply to Cambridge or other competitive Russell Group universities, we’d advise you to take them alongside three academic A Levels, rather than as one of three.

Critical Thinking or Key Skills aren’t considered suitable options as one of your three A Level choices for any course at Cambridge. We welcome candidates with the Extended Project Qualification (EPQ), as it helps develop independent study and research skills which are valuable for higher education. However this would be unlikely to form part of a conditional offer.

@MarchingFrogs
Apologies. I didn’t notice French in y8. These students always have an advantage. My DD only started Italian in year 8. She got a place at Oxford. Who actually worked harder?

@User84 I know law is hugely competitive so just going to any university, even if RG, isn’t giving yourself the best chance. I would always advocate choosing the most competitive subjects. Getting into university isn’t the same as getting a job.

Often overlooked is LNAT. Top courses use this. Oxford like analytical subjects as well as essay ones. So a science is useful. But DD is considering psychology. That could be substituted for English.

The conversion course is often paid by the employer. Not for barristers but they can apply for awards from the Inns of Court. Strategy for employment is important. 18,000 students do law in this country every year. 6000 training contracts in a good year. 450 pupillages. Loads go to older applicants too! So choosing the best university is vital. It’s competitive.

I didn’t notice French in y8. These students always have an advantage. My DD only started Italian in year 8. She got a place at Oxford. Who actually worked harder?

That's why op's dd should take 3 additional A levels apart from French.

My dc are also bilingual and were strongly advised to take 4 A levels (including the language A level). The advantage they have is huge so it's really not a lot of extra work.

Especially if the surname is also a giveaway (and, though less relevant except for Oxbridge), anyone would realise that she is at least partly French if they heard her speak.

(Our surname is originally French, but obviously sufficiently corrupted over the centuries since DH's paternal ancestor arrived here for no university DD applied to for 'and' or 'with' French degrees to suspect that she might speak it at home).

Nobody has mentioned this one yet so I may just throw it in and run.

A lawyer once mentioned it was highly valued.
Involved lots of analysis of text, learning and presenting chunks of texts precisely, reacting to another person and creating a persuasive argument…..

Theatre and drama studies

Also has the bonus that there’s a lot of coursework and not many exams at the end of it. This is great if you are doing others that are exam heavy because the A Level timetable can sometimes be brutal.

I remember a parent saying that their lawyer child was stressed about learning a great speech of 5 minutes. It’s a monologue.

Drama is a risky choice for anyone needing immaculate grades. Certainly at GCSE level and I'm assuming also at A Level. The group working element is something that you cannot fully control and it attracts kids who think it will be easy and want to mess about. You need to check the syllabus carefully to see how group work is handled.

I say this as a lawyer parent married to another lawyer with two DC wanting to be lawyers, one of whom is also a very keen actor.

Im not disputing that acting skills are useful, particularly if you're a litigator (most lawyers aren't). There are however other ways of getting public speaking skills. Debating society, Model UN, school plays etc