Ds supposed to be starting 3rd year, but…….

[Sewaccidentprone]

Doesn’t have enough credits - failed 2 units so now has 90 credits but needed 120 credits.

Uni says there’s nothing they can do and he’s off the course.

No clue what to do now???

I think the suggestion if transferring to a similar course at a less rigorous university is a good one.

Generally you need about 360 credits for a third class degree, if he is sitting in 90 it would be practically impossible for him to achieve that in his third year - I assume the OP means 90 credits from the second year? Not 90 total to date (first year plus second year).

Yeah - 120 for y1 and 90 for y2.

he said he found the maths unit very tough. My advice was to talk to his tutor. Unfortunately you can’t make them do this, and think with the whole of y1 being online, it’s affected how he’s interacted with tutors etc.

What about a year in industry and retaking units as close to the ones he missed through OU then doing his third year next year? In effect he would have done a sandwich course but studied part time during work placement. Find the courses, find the job, and convince the university, but act now. He’s shown himself not to be that commuted or able but he can turn that around. (I did something very similar decades ago the key is to get on with it).

Year 1 doesn’t really count. It’s just base. So you need to discount that.

if he was mine? I’d be asking is he capable and was out partying and not applying himself. Or is this he tried and lacks the ability. If it’s the former I’d discuss repeating the second year and see if it’s possible.I’d not wait a year of working as they usually forget what they learned.

The cost is high though to repeat, so he needs to be committed, even if it’s possible . If it’s he just can’t do it, then he should look to try something else, inc apprenticeships.

he’s not alone, a lot of kids go to do a degree and either don’t apply themselves or are simply not capable and should have picked a different route. And are out at end of the second year.

I think for me the key point is he’s known for a long time he was failing this badly and was either unable or unwilling to pull it back, over 40% Pass rate and generally they let you continue, as said he’s down at about 25% I think overall and in total , so it wasn’t just maths, it was across the board, as they are marked on very many elements.

id be working with him on other routes to employment to be honest. Don’t make a big issue as he obviously wasn’t able to tell you he was failing it, and his mental health is critical. But more focus on the positives of next steps;

It’s also worth asking about exit qualifications, he should leave with something, even if it’s just a diploma.

I second looking at the same course at a different Uni - I swapped after my first year in STEM as there was barely any lab time at my RG Uni, a tonne of exams and I have ADHD/SpLDs so it really didn’t suit me. I moved to another Uni, non RG but Top 20, well respected and it was still an accredited degree, only with a 60/40 split in labs/lectures and coursework/exams.

Op to clarify

the first year points generally don’t count to the final degree, not significantly. Some unis do a small percentage but most don’t count it at all.

It’s normally 40/60 for second and third year, for final classification and a third, requires 360 points. Which is generally a 40% pass rate to get a third.

if he achieved 90 in the second year then he’d need 270 in the third year, to even hit the 40% pass rate and achieve a third, it would be nigh on impossible for him, especially considering third year is way more work and much much more complex than second year.

these are general principles, I don’t know where he is studying. But this is way more than he struggles with maths. It’s failure across the board to a level that there is no point in continuing, as said, I think he’s achieving across all his modules what you’d consider about 25%, give or take.

the question as said is this just about him out partying or is this he lacks the ability. This is a key question to address;

wasn’t told this was a possible outcome.

It will be stated in the programme specification and in the course handbook. If it isn't, he might have grounds for appeal, but this is vanishingly unlikely as university quality-assurance offices just don't allow that kind of situation to arise.

Generally you need about 360 credits for a third class degree

You're confusing credits and grades. In a three-year degree programme you will take modules worth a total of 360 credits (120 in each year). The degree classification algorithm (these vary alarmingly among universities) will specify the minimum total number of credits - and the minimum number of level-6 credits - required to be awarded an honours degree, but the class (1st, 2i, etc.) will depend on the average marks from modules accounting for a specified number of credits at levels 5 and 6. At its simplest, this would be a weighted average of marks from all level-5 (second-year) and level-6 (third-year) modules, with level-6 modules given double the weighting of level-5. However, many universities have much more lenient algorithms than this, so you can get a first even with some 3rd-class module marks.

I was trying to make it understandable for the op who I am suspecting doesn’t have a degree and it’s complex if you don’t. I was trying to give her a high level grasp of why he was asked to leave the course.

you are of course correct, I’m just not convinced she needs that level of detail more to understand why he’s been asked to leave now.

Unis are very very clear that if you fail a retake after first year that’s you gone. He likely would have been told this doing a retake.
If he’s failing four second year units I think he’d have absolutely bombed in third year. So likely for the best.
He needs to have a serious think about what to do now it sounds like this course is too much for him.

Some excellent advise here.

suspect ds has been burying his head in the sand about this in the hope he’d be able to turn it around and not admit he was being overstretched.

I stressed to him how much more difficult y2 is to y1 as he found y1 really easy, but hey - what do I know?

also think he didn’t prioritize his education over going to the gym, working p/t, plus socializing, hobbies etc. I know you have to strike a balance, but giving enough time etc to the most important thing is key.

was reading an article the other week which said a lot of y2 students have struggled this year as their 1st year was all online.

ds had stated he preferred doing online lectures as he could pause, rewind it etch while taking notes. But it’s not just about that. It’s important to interact personally in lectures with other students, with the tutor etc, not just siting in your room staring at a screen.

he was doing electrical and electronic engineering and I didn’t think he as enjoying it v much as there was surprisingly little lab work (which is the bit he really enjoys).

all in all, he needs to come up with a plan in the next few days after talking to careers advice, whether that’s moving to a different Uni with slightly less academic work and with a more practical element, maybe doing an apprenticeship, taking a year out (I’m def not in favour of this as think it’s harder to go back).

and of course we’ll support him whatever he chooses to do (and have made this clear to him). We just want him to be happy and for him to do something he enjoys (in regard to work), which given the choice isn’t what we’d all like?

He will have to take on a module for the year to make up the credits this academic year then do third year next year. Could he find a job alongside and turn it into a bit of a year in industry?

He’s taken exams in those 2 units twice and failed both times. This isn’t the course for him at this time.

He may have the ability and competence in a few years’ time after some work in the field. Or he may have the ability for a related discipline or exacting programme- but with Engineering that’s tricky because of accreditation etc. And really, do we want engineers who can’t pass material at 2nd year? It’s only going to get harder.

The A Levels for students who have just gone into Yr 3 would have been TAGs. Maybe for those who struggle it was not just about lockdown but also about some being over marked and achieving grades for a course that was too stretching for them. There was bound to be a shakedown at some point.

Op. Most unis stream their lectures, so it’s still on line, so any student who can’t attend can view or any student who wishes to revisit it. Sp it was likely still on line.

What I find interesting op is that you give absolutely no indication how your son is feeling.

is he upset?
is he bothered?
does he even want to stay?

as for money - does this mean thousands of pounds down the drain?

Ds says he’s fine and has given every indication he is. He would tell me if he wasn’t (I hope). He had a difficult time (as did most teens as far as I can tell) with his mental health during lockdown and when awaiting his a level results.

he’s generally very optimistic and always seems to believe things will turn out ok.

so it’s not the end of the world, it could be some much worse. He has options, just trying to work out what’s out there and what he wants to do.

and yes, he has 2 years student loan and fees, so approve debt atm of £30,000

He’s always been very driven and achieved everything he wanted up to now, and has wanted to do the course since he was 15.

now needs a plan B, and possibly C, D etc.

but talking with student careers advice tomorrow, so will have a better idea of options.

But yes, he is upset and bothered. He really wanted to carry of with the course, do a supplementary year etc. but doesn’t seem to be an option any more.

rold him being an adult isn’t always easy and things don’t always go the way you’ve planned. The trick is not to let it get you down too much (easier said than done I’ve had a very up and down life and been on AD’s for the past 10 years and am finding this very anxiety inducting, plus the fact a close relative is very unwell, but all out of my hands and have no influence on outcomes).

trying to remain positive - he’s healthy, has friends, p/t job he enjoys, hobbies and is bright and motivated (!), and I’ve eventually been promoted at work, so things aren’t anywhere near as tight financially as they were a year ago (just in time for energy bills to increase)

He would tell me if he wasn’t (I hope).

but he didn’t tell you or even hint to you the severity of the situation at university, leaving you blindsided. He would have been acutely aware of the situation and the possible and then very likely consequences for some time now OP.

Could he look at a degree apprenticeship as an option?

Happened to my DN in a different subject. I think he was told at the end of year2. Managed to get into another university to retake year 2 and was successful in getting degree at the end of year3. Career has gone well since graduation.
Another DN failed at the end of year1 and knew the course was not for him. He secured a business apprenticeship and now holds an OU degree and professional qualifications. There will be options!

You need 360 credits to get a degree. It's the grades that decide your classification.

If he's failing then he's getting less than 40%. You can get 40% by hitting the word count and using 5 references. But nobody wants a 3rd class, do they?

He's either not cut out or he's not putting the work in.