Online lectures

[OhBeAFineGuyKissMe]

DD has just started at York. She has 4 hours of seminars and has just found out that all lectures are pre-recorded. Even the introductory lecture was via zoom. If they are going to do it live why not do it in person?

There is nothing on the website that says her lectures would be prerecorded! If we had known it would have been a major factor is choosing which university to go to. She only found out in the first week of term.

Very hard to think what we can do now. I am pissed off that she is spending £9250 (even if you get a loan you are still paying it) as well as we are financially supporting her for such a shit offering.

Is there any way I can complain about this (I know she is 18, by 2 months, but parents are expected to financially support through university)? If we had known this she wouldn’t have put York down as her choice, so I feel deceived as well. If they are proud of the pre-recorded lectures why don’t they make it very clear what they are doing?

Anyone else still no doing proper lectures and how do you / your child think about this?

I think the OP and her DD probably jumped the gun out of ignorance and lack of experience in HE

My DD is a fresher at York too!
All her timetabling is face to face.

What subject is your daughter studying at York?

Ok archaeology. Well your daughter is an adult and she can discuss this with her personal supervisor. I have a good knowledge of York and I know for a fact nothing gets through academic scrutiny without it having a good pegalogical reason for that approach. Maybe they use international lecturers based in other corners of the uk or world? Has your daughter enquired or just jumped to conclusions- perhaps that's a learning opportunity for the both of you!

Why are parents expected to financially support adults through university? Mine certainly haven't and what happens in the unfortunate circumstance you don't have any? At 18 I'd never have expected my parents to pay for uni, let alone ring up and complain on my behalf. I'd be mortified.

The amount of maintance loan depends on parental income, we are a high income family so get a reduced amount, parents are expected to top this up.

If you don’t have parents then you get the full amount. If you have parents but they won’t support you then there is a process to follow.

I said she has 4 hours face 2 face seminars. That is it. They are given group work but it is up to them if they want to meet up or do it independently. It will be interesting to see if more get added but her timetable for the year is up and that is all her contact hours, which does seem very low.

My experience of HE is when I went to uni but I did a STEM subject so had a lot of contact hours.

4 hours a week is entirely typical
for a non science subject - group work plus essay reading and preparation is expected to take much more than that. Both my kids did social science type subjects and probably worked a total of 20 -25 hours a week between lectures, seminars and essays etc. This was not that much different to my degree back in the dark ages

I said she has 4 hours face 2 face seminars. That is it

What about the workshops? And the guided group work? Are you now saying that's up to them whether they get together to do it or not?

My experience of HE is when I went to uni but I did a STEM subject so had a lot of contact hours
I also did a STEM subject at York, 20 years ago, and we were in most of the week. But even back then my friends who did humanities had 3-4 hours of seminars at most and the rest of the time they were supposed to be studying by themselves, reading and preparing for the seminars. Most of them never bothered going to the lectures anyway.
And as I said, archaeology friends couldn't be bothered to go all the way into Kings' Manor for just an hour. So in that way I think it's good that the lectures are online.

I think your expectations are based on STEM and it's just not comparable I'm afraid.

The 4 hours is both seminars and workshop, they are put into groups (online) and then left to figure it out. Which seems tough if you don’t know anyone yet.

I know humanities subjects have lower contact hours but was very surprised how low in the first year.

No idea why I am overly-invested in this. Probably because I've lost my voice and off work... but I've looked on the York Archaeology BSc website and under the teaching and learning section it lists what contact hours to expect:

In your first year, you can expect:
Lectures 3-5 hours per week
Seminars 2-4 hours per week
Workshops 2-4 hours per week
Practicals 2-4 hours per week
Excavation 3 weeks
Field trips 4-6 days
Feedback sessions 1-2 hours

Does your DD have the timetable for the full semester yet? Or are you basing it off the first couple of weeks? Because according to the website there are more contact hours than you and your DD are saying (The lectures are online - I appreciate that) But the rest of it? Perhaps there is more to come - they are just starting them off gently.

We read that too and double checked. Her timetable is filled in for the year. Seminars and workshops come to 4 hours. No practicals - maybe they will appear later? From the website it reads as 9- 17 hours a week face2face, no mention of pre recorded lectures.

If the pre recorded lectures and flipped learning is good why aren’t they saying they do that? Then we could have asked questions and made out choice based on that.

Saying that she has texted me to say the seminar on Neanderthals was very interesting. And the reading she has already done for her EPQ, so is a topic she is interested in.

4 hours plus online does seem low. I'd expect about 10 inc. lectures for 1st year in humanities.

I do think your DD needs to contact her class rep and course leader to ask why what she is getting this year differs from what she was expecting @OhBeAFineGuyKissMe
It may be her timetable is wrong (wouldn't be the first time!)
Or maybe some of the classes start later in the term.

Because student maintenance loans are means tested based on parents income. Max loan is less than 5k a year for maintenance is parents earn over a certain amount. Parents are expected to make up the difference - so up to 10/11k which a student would get if they got max loan.

In your day this probably wasn’t the case, and many people don’t realise this, and so aren’t financially prepared when asked to contribute thousands per year. I guess it’s because a large proportion of students never pay their loan back in full, and so someone’s got to suck up that lost money so the governments answer I guess was to loan less out if they view parents as able to contribute. Some parents can’t or won’t, students then have to support themselves through working

Totally off thread but in 2006 my degree had certain modules cancelled due to certain software being too expensive. Those modules were why I chose the course. So I was left with either finishing a degree that was irrelevant to my career plans or leaving it for another year (transferring wasn't an option!)

When I complained - the university literally laughed me out of the room. The programme manager chuckled and said "so?"

So I am really pleased to see students speaking up about shite degrees!!

😊 sorry totally irrelevant, I know

My DD’s time table is similar, a lot of online lectures and a few face to face seminars. I kind of wonder where all the money goes 😬. Also wished we knew this before putting deposits down in halls. Dd doesn’t seem too bothered though, she has some disabilities so finds online a little easier but I do worry that she will be spending a lot of time in her room and not mixing with people.

Maybe the dates of the practicals and workshops aren't fixed? Ditto the field trips and excavation.
Perhaps there are few dates for these and students sign up for them when they are announced.
I suppose she could ask if something has been missed off her timetable as she was expecting there to be practicals and she's concerned she might be missing out if the timetable isn't complete.

The fees paid don’t even cover the expenses of running the university- paying the salaries, heating and lighting, the facilities enjoyed by the students etc etc. Hence the foreign students (£££) and holiday conferences using the Halls which means kids need to bring all their stuff home in the holidays.

And mixing is possible through activities/societies/ part time job. It’s all there to be enjoyed if the student is motivated

No practicals - maybe they will appear later?

It fairly common for practical sessions to be timetabled as the term progresses. I have had students come bleating to me that they booked a ski trip or similar at the start of term but now, out of the blue, it’s clashing with eight hours of practicals.

My DD’s time table is similar, a lot of online lectures and a few face to face seminars. I kind of wonder where all the money goes

Online lectures aren’t cheap to make.

See, it’s why RG is overrated. I went to one and then lectured in one and now teach in a good non-RG.

My teaching tools - in the 2010s - at the RG was a blackboard and an overhead projector. Colleagues still there basically stopped teaching during the pandemic and will continue to use the least time-intensive methods they can. They know they’ll still be oversubscribed and can pick and choose who the accept.

Look for universities that have Silver or Gold in the Teaching Excellence Framework (TEF). We invest enormously in our students’ education.

However, it should be noted that lectures and seminars are the minimum of a degree experience. Taking part in societies, applying for internships, on-campus and off-campus volunteering, joining sports teams, academic clubs, attending guest lectures and workshops (not timetabled) are what make the whole degree and help students network and graduate with a wealth of experience, confidence and contacts.

York has Gold TEF...

Interestingly, one of DD's friends graduated in Archaeology from there in the summer - DD thinks that she would have mentioned if lectures hadn't gone back to f2f, but I suppose she might be wrong.