Is Myers-Briggs evidence based?

[DrawersWithSocks]

So Ds' school subscribe to an online MBTI test service which is used for personal development and careers advice. Ds was confused and grumpy yesterday as he wants to be an architect but the test results said that his personality doesn't suit being architect. For background, my dh and MIL are both architects and ds has always been interested.

How reliable are these tests and how can I reassure ds that his random results don't need to influence his career choice.

I would say they are pretty contentious and without firm evidence base. I wouldn’t be advising my child’s future plans based on that and frankly it is rather depressing that a school would do that

They are absolute bullshit and one of the authors has questionable views on race. I'd be challenging the school very firmly on how inappropriate it is.

No they're not stable over time or between people. Having said that, I do find the four dimensions useful as a prompt to analyse individual behaviour and relationships between people and within teams. You can also identify any aspects of your preferences that you might need to work harder on. Do you know which of the dimensions they considered incompatible?

The Big Five seems to be considered as the most robust personality measurement tool (with some adding a sixth scale).

The process can give individuals useful insights, but the scores are unreliable and have minimal predictive validity.

they’re bollocks at best. Have done several types of these tests over the years.

This article is pretty fair and has some interesting background

www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2013/mar/19/myers-briggs-test-unscientific

Some people seem to find this sort of thing helpful but from what I've read/ heard I probably wouldn't worry about it especially as your family also know very well what the job intails.

My husband looked into them years ago and discussed it with one of his colleagues in the psychology department, who didn't think they had much validity. My Dad did a test based on this once at a residential event orgnised by the wider organisation who employed him, and apparently it indicated that my father, near the end of his career was very unsuited for his life long line of work. One he loved, considered his 'vocation' and I'm pretty sure did more than fine at, or was even very successful in over his working life.

Thank you. That's what I thought. In the past, I have scored different letter combos and there was always something in it that accurately described me but also something that wasn't me at all. So pretty random then.

How can I challenge the school?

I have explained to ds that a computer generated quiz cannot reliably identify his 'personality' or predict what career would suit him.

I said that he should choose to study something that her feels he would enjoy and be motivated to work hard for.

I think generally speaking it's good to try and figure out if someone would rather like (or be prepared) to work in an office, on site (structural engineering allows for this as part of an office role), or more manual work. I also think it's important to figure out what he feels his strengths are. For example people's skills and being an effective communicator are surely skills that are important in almost every job these days in fact they are life skills. He is slightly monosyllabic but he's got to learn to communicate (he's 14) professionally and that comes with maturity and experience.

It’s a interesting tool, no more.
Can you get DH to do it and if his results confirm it doesn’t always get it right, reassure DS?
It’s not an exact science. My cohort on my vocational MSc were 80% one type which is only 9% of the general population and the job we were training for was the first in that types list.
On a related note has he read the Divergent kids scifi books?

Can you get DH to do it and if his results confirm it doesn’t always get it right, reassure DS?

That's a brilliant idea!

Very contentious

I do think they can be useful as a jumping off point to think about yourself, so encourage your DS to see them like that - I certainly shouldn’t put him off being an architect.

I have a vague memory some very simple version I did at school suggested I be a solicitor - I am fairly chaotic and would be epic level shit at any law related job.

@Etinoxaurus , I don't think he has read the Divergent kids scifi books but not sure. Off to google them.

The outcomes are written in a way that it sounds like it could apply to you, so thats why people read them and feel that its a bit like them

Its like horoscopes, so blandly written that it might apply to you

I'm quite sure he hasn't read them.

I haven’t either but I’ve seen the films
They're about destiny, vocations and family. Set in dystopia of course but he might enjoy them.

Just ignore the results and don't speak to the school. Sometimes the tests are useful as they pin teenagers down so they actually think about careers. My twins had Morrisby tests at school (and I paid for another of the chidlren to have them at university stage). However I think they can be maniupulated to an extent - my daughter's she made sure came up - anything but lawyer (which is fine by me) although within a year had chosen law herself!

Architect is a very good job, long course but worthwhile career.

I’m personally a fan of MBTI, with a few caveats.

It can give an indication of your personality “preferences”. We all have the capability to express all the different dimensions, but our “preferences/type” is what we revert back to when stressed or under pressure. Can be useful to understand and recognise.

However I don’t think it’s appropriate to use it as a careers tool. Not sure there’s much evidence for that.

This sounds like bollocks. What “personality” do architects have?

MBTI is useful up to a point for talking about preferences and team dynamics but is not appropriate the way the school is using it

I have done some some academic research on these kinds of tests. They’re a fun and occasionally illuminating tool, but have no real evidence base and shouldn’t be remotely taken as anything determinative or scientific!

MBTI, amongst others, was based on highly speculative sets of ideas, some derived from Jungian psychoanalysis, in the early decades of the twentieth century. They’re often fascinating and fun to do and can provide interesting insights into interpersonal and working styles, but should be taken with liberal pinches (shovelfuls) of salt. I can come out as any one of four different personality types depending on the day, even when it’s administered by a test scorer. (The full test is also proprietary so even to do a “proper” one costs money. The ones available online are just fun and games, no more!)

Tell your DS (and the school) to ignore it and focus on his own interests and academic strengths instead.

The Insights Discovery Profile, which is very similar but uses more memorable 'types' has been validated by the British Psychological Society as 90%+ accurate, if I remember rightly.

I would focus less on the job and more on a conversation around his preferences for work, I.e, does he like detailed work, working with others, is he creative, does he like flexibility or processes, does he prefer working to deadlines or not, etc.

Some private schools use Insights Discovery to help pupils write their personal statement for UCAS. It's a way to help them think about the different things they would bring to a career. It's not about signposting them to a job, it's about helping them think about how they 'prefer' to work and then considering what type of career might match their preferences.

I wouldn't go in all guns blazing; it's a useful conversation and thought starter, if you treat it as such.

"Whenever you're called on to make up your mind,
and you're hampered by not having any,
the best way to solve the dilemma, you'll find,
is simply by spinning a penny.
No - not so that chance shall decide the affair
while you're passively standing there moping;
but the moment the penny is up in the air,
you suddenly know what you're hoping.

-Piet Hein"

With the test being the penny. The fact that your DS is annoyed the test results didn't flash up "Architect! Be an architect!" bodes well for him actually being an architect... because he wants it.

They’re absolute nonsense and school should not be using them in this way.
The only time they might be of use is for a student with NO ideas, to give them somewhere to start from.
Tell your DS to ignore and start researching his passions

Perhaps you could send the Guardian article to the school and explain that while you're sure they don't intend to put such weight on the results, unfortunately your DS has wrongly concluded that they can decide your future.

Exactly the same as this. In fact, are you me??