DD fixed on only 3 Unis

[EmmaStone]

DD is currently applying for 2023 entry, she's got good predictions of at least 2 A stars and an A (with this possibly being bumped up, she's taking a further assessment next week). She wants to read something within Classics/Ancient History, but told me the other day when she was trying to decide on her 5 choices, that if she didn't get into her top 2 (or a third being Edinburgh which I'm trying to discourage due to distance and less likelihood of an offer), she would probably reject any offers from the others anyway.

Her top 3 are Oxford, Durham and Edinburgh, with 'bottom' 3 being Warwick, Exeter and Birmingham. I've explained that the odds are against her for her top 3, but she's desperate to be in an ancient university environment, adores Oxford and Durham in particular, and can't see herself at an 'ugly' Uni.

Now I know when push comes to shove she may change her mind, but I'm quite concerned that she would dismiss other excellent choices if she (likely) gets rejected from Oxford and Durham (let's ignore Edinburgh for now...). Those with older (and wiser) children, has anyone come up against this? How did it pan out? Having visions of her applying year after year for Oxford /Durham 😂

Don't try to dissuade her from a uni because it's too far away. She might resent you for it later on!

I agree with HaveringWavering - I'm questioning whether it's too far only for you and not for her - the latter should be the main decider, it's her life. And if she doesn't get what she wants this year, IMO taking a gap year and trying again with actual grades isn't a bad choice, my DD and some of her friends have done this and having a year out in the workplace or volunteering has massively helped with their maturity and perspective.

My niece studied classics at Cambridge. Very grand and amazing college. Classics is less competitive as your really only
competing with mainly private school children. Not to dismiss her achievements as she skipped out with a first and is doing very well. She will get an idea very quickly for oxbridge as they have there own entrance exam so she will have an opportunity to change her uni choices if she doesn’t get through that.

My DD applied to Oxford only. Her rationale was similar to your DD - she would only reject them and if Oxford was unsuccessful she would reapply to a full UCAS form set of unis in the following year. It was nail biting and in retrospect feels she would have been happier elsewhere.

I think it would be worth drilling down more with her in terms of what she really means when she says she wants somewhere 'ancient' and 'not ugly'. Is it actually that she doesn't like the idea of a campus university? Using that as a criteria might add in a few more choices, though not her current ones. She also needs to really think through what it will mean day to day. Has she seen the classics department building in Cambridge? It isn't pretty, and nor is the site it's situated on! Which I don't think matters, but does she? Has she looked at where they put the freshers in her chosen Cambridge or Durham college?

Anecdotally at least they don't do this (and they didn't in my day; nor did Bristol or it would have been empty!) as my friend's DD as mentioned in pp did get a Durham offer in the end, despite applying to Oxford as well.

Indeed, I'd say most of my peers at Durham had applied to Oxbridge (including my husband).

I've also heard the admissions staff say on two separate (remote) open days that they like Oxbridge candidates because they're some of the top students and why wouldn't they want them to come to Durham? They made a particular point of it.

Though, as I mentioned earlier, our school had very few Durham offers this year and many of those pupils had also applied to Oxford. Difficult to tell the reason but applying from a private school may be more of a factor.

If your daughter likes pretty universities, I'd look at St Andrew's and Nottingham is quite leafy and attractive.

You’re discouraging Edinburgh? That seems out of order. It’s an excellent university and set in a wonderful city. Don’t let your concerns about distance have ANY influence.

You shouldn’t be discouraging any universities regardless of distance.

What sort of school does she go to?

I teach at an Oxbridge college and, frankly, Classics is one of the easiest subjects to get in for. Totally different kettle of fish from PPE, English, law, history etc. The applicant base is also depressingly lacking in diversity and many of us feel the course numbers should be reduced to avoid accepting mediocre public school people while state-school applicants are being turned down for the much more competitive subjects. (Not much Latin taught in state schools; same issue with some modern languages).

In other words, if she goes to a state school she will get in unless she badly messes up some aspect of the interview. If she goes to a private school she has a far better chance than for any other subject.

St Andrews fits your daughter’s specifications.

Glasgow is also ancient with stunning buildings and is high up the league tables for classics.

An offer from Edinburgh may be hard to achieve as they are reducing the number of private-schooled RUK offers from over 50% to around 25%. See statement below:

www.ed.ac.uk/news/2022/student-admissions-change-to-increase-diversity

Given her predictions I wouldn’t say the odds are against her at all. A student in my school applying with those grades would be expected to get offers at all except Oxford- which would rely on entrance exam and then interview. Classics is also declining in applicants so much easier to get into Oxbridge than some other subjects. If it doesn’t work out she can reapply after results.

These days the individual universities have no idea where else you have applied so it has no impact on offers. It’s not like the old UCCA form days!

Seconding Royal Holloway for Classics and the look of the place

In my day (20 years ago) Durham routinely rejected those applying for Oxford/Cambridge

That might have been the case when we all filled out paper applications but not now. The university just gets your application to them, they have no idea where else you have applied. Ds applied to Cambridge but was rejected after interview. He is now at Durham. The clue for a potential Oxbridge candidate is that their application for any other uni is in before 15th October however, they can just apply to Oxbridge before that deadline and then all other unis before the January deadline.

Re Durham some of the colleges are brand new and even if you apply to an old one you may well be housed in a more modern building. Your DD's grades are higher than the entry level for Durham but I would look into numbers of applicants and number of places for the course, not just at Durham but the other universities too. All top universities are oversubscribed so they get their pick. Sometimes you may have everything they want and yet be exactly the same as another 10 applicants all applying for the same place.

That's true but due to the early deadline for Oxford applications, it's fairly likely that you've applied there. We were advised to apply after the Oxford deadline for that reason.

The clue for a potential Oxbridge candidate is that their application for any other uni is in before 15th October however, they can just apply to Oxbridge before that deadline and then all other unis before the January deadline.

I didn't know you could do this, that's very interesting.

No advice really but just come on to ask if you're actually serious that the relative beauty of the buildings is any kind of factor in selecting a university.

I lived in Somerset and went to Stirling - it was the only uni that did the course that I wanted to do. Sometimes the bigger the distance, the easier. I flew up to uni (Bristol to Glasgow/Edinburgh) which was much easier and cheaper than taking the train or bus half the distance.

They are all good choices. Don't discourage on distance, it is her who has to be willing to handle it and all those are good for short visits. If needs be she can submit her ucas with her three definite choices for the Oxbridge deadline and add two more later. Has she done open days at them all?

She definitely needs an insurance uni. Who knows what might happen. My daughter ended up in her insurance uni when she didn't get the results she was predicted through circumstances which were completely beyond her control.

My state educated child didn't get an offer from Durham despite all 9s at GCSE and all A* predictions, a great PS and school reference
They did get an offer from Oxbridge.
Durham seems to be a law into itself. Several students from the school with (slightly) lower GCSEs and the same predictions got offers from Durham for the same subject.

Edinburgh offer rate for last year was 84% classics and 48% joint honours history so with those predicted grades she is likely to get Edinburgh offers even with the levelling up (which I suspect won't apply to classics as they will struggle to fill course places without the privately educated kids). They used to give early offers so maybe her strategy is sound.

Thanks other posters for updating my admissions knowledge

Meanwhile, adding to @hopsalong ’s post about classics being less competitive than other subjects, not every Oxford college has the same level of competition to get in (same for Durham etc). The ‘easy’ option was (depressingly) to try for the womens colleges

Built environment is an important factor in health and well-being. That's not to say modern universities can't be attractive.

It is worth listing Edinburgh early in the hope of a Christmas/New Year offer as they otherwise tend to leave it late, due to balancing the different funding streams. Edinburgh degrees are really flexible so she could apply for Classics but take options from History, Languages, Philosophy etc to develop breadth and possibly switch course later.