Mums of medics, over here pls?

[AvecFenstre]

DD is only in year 6 so this I just idle musing at this point, but I would really appreciate your views.

Dd is doing well academically, she loves learning, reading, science and is good, but not ace in maths.

She is a very enthusiastic SJA cadet and, you guessed it, dreams of becoming a doctor.

In your opinion, does a child who is academically bright but not exceeding in all areas at primary level but who loves and is good at science stand a chance to get the grades required when the time comes? Is it possible to boost a bright but not exceedingly so child to help them achieve top grades in secondary? If yes, how?

Many medical schools only ask for grades 4-6/7 in maths GCSE. She has plenty of time to develop, plus I feel that secondary maths is quite different to the fast mental maths prioritised sometimes in primary (although this can be an element in the entrance exams).

For now I would treat it the same as any other career dreams a child might have to be a ballerina, astronaut or teacher. Don't put too much emphasis on it so she feels unable to turn around at 15 and say she actually wants to be an engineer, but at the same time tell her that if she works hard at school she might be able to work in healthcare.

You genuinely cannot say whether a Year 6 is likely to achieve grades for Medicine, seven years down the line. Too much could happen, including changed to GCSEs, A Levels and even university admissions processes!

Don’t overthink it, encourage her interests and if they’re still there in about Year 9 you could start to look in more granular detail. You may want to try and expose her to broader healthcare roles than just doctor, but that’s it at this stage.

In terms of boosting grades, focus on a love of learning, resilience and organisation at this stage. Anything more specific would be later on.

I have a similar aged dd and will not be encouraging medicine sorry. If she really wants to do it fine, it’s still a good career I think although unrecognisable since I started 30 years ago. Doctors are leaving in droves and morale is at an all time low so the most important skill she will need by far is resilience and a lot of it. Sorry to sound so negative but the last few years in particular have brought huge change to the NHS and not in a good way…
The most important thing I think is self directed learning, common sense and people skills. Too early to tell whether she’ll put the graft in for exams at the time needed.
Would I still encourage my dd if she was desperate to do it? Possibly as it’s a hugely interesting and rewarding career. The job she will do in another 15 years time will be unrecognisable from now though and the NHS may well have imploded! (Thankfully after seeing the hours I keep there’s not a hope in hell she’ll apply for medicine!). Sorry to sound so negative

This.

I am a Dr and no way would I encourage my daughter to do it.

I'm actually semi actively looking for a way out...

My dd is bright, and decided on medicine at a similar kind of age. She’s now in Y11 (GCSE year), and knows that there is no way she’d be prepared to work hard enough.

My ds, otoh, had never been remotely interested in medicine - he was thinking of investment banking or similar (money!). He applied for Economics, and then at the start of March 2020 decided he wanted to study medicine. He’s just about to start his second year. But he is prepared to put in the slog.

My DS also was keen on medicine at about 8 or 9. Stopped talking about it at about your DD's age although he loved the first aid course run at school in Year 8. Heard about SJA cadets in Year 9 and we put him on the waiting list (we had no idea about it even existing before), although he was thinking of architecture as a career at that stage. Did work experience at a (very prestigious) architecture firm in Year 10 - enjoyed it but decided that an office based job was probably not for him, and rethought about medicine. Finally (after three years of waiting on the waiting list) got into SJA. Shadowed some doctors, got some work experience, Is about to start medicine at Nottingham next week.
BTW I did try very, very hard to talk him out of medicine when he came back to it in Year 10. My first response was to buy him This is Going to Hurt - but he had got the bug and wouldn't take persuading.
So the first thing I would say is that I would not be particularly encouraging or suggesting such a career at this stage (and being enthusiastic at SJA might also lead to considering a paramedic career for example). I would rather encourage her to explore a wide range of options, of which this is only one, and not narrow and focus until much, much later.
But I also really don't think that not being stellar at maths at Year 5-6 rules you out. My DS was very, very average at maths at Year 5. Very slap dash and got a lot wrong. In those days there was something called Level 6 in Year 6, and the teacher started taking out the mathematically able students to teach them Level 6 work - and DS for some reason decided he wanted to go with them, and wouldn't take no for an answer. Teacher even phoned me end of September to tell me to tell him he shouldn't be going out to do the Level 6 work, and he needed to concentrate on trying to achieve a Level 5, which she felt was doubtful (a call I ignored. I figured that if she couldn't stop him going out with the Level 6 students when she was in the classroom, how was I supposed to do anything from home - and she agreed he wasn't being disruptive, just pointless for him when he could be revising lower level maths in the classroom). By November it was - OK he seems to be getting something out of the Level 6 work, so he can stay in the class, but I am not putting him forward for the actual exam. By February it was - of course I am putting him forward for the Level 6 exam. He didn't get it - but he was only a handful of marks off and got a very high Level 5, and his maths took off from there (very high 9 in GCSE, high A star in A Level). So I don't think not being stellar at maths at your DD's age necessarily tells you anything. Besides which, you don't need a maths A level to do medicine (chemistry and biology are requirements at some universities, but not maths). My DS just took it because by that point it was his best subject, and the key is doing really well at A level (and hopefully at GCSEs. For some medical schools, the GCSE scores really count, for others they don't - so those with less stellar GCSEs have to choose different medical schools to apply to).
But it is very, very tough to get in (and then no doubt tough at university, and tough working in the NHS). Something like less than 20% of applicants got in this last year. Ideally you don't want to get too fixated on it (she said, having a DS who was completely fixated during the application process, but what can you do, your DC at that age don't listen to you anymore about things like this). Certainly try not to get them fixated for as long as possible.

DD qualified 7 years ago and is looking for a new career. The struggle for a life/work balance finally got to her. It makes me sad because she's a great doctor and has a real passion for it. Also, we do not pay doctors well at all in this country.

Mum of a 4th medical student here - if your daughter has a real vocation for medicine then I would encourage her! It's also good to do something outside of schoolwork that she can excel in - doesn't really matter if it's arts, sports or whatever but it's important to have something outside of academic life too. It also helps build confidence and skills.

In year 6 my dd had already achieved year 9 levels in maths and English, unfortunately she then had fairly bad mental health issues so missed lots of school and became disengaged with science because of disruptive behaviour in lessons. I would concentrate on your DD's love of learning all around and leave future careers until year 8/9 at least

Yes this too - I am also looking to leave early. But I encourage any children who are keen. My children on the other hand feel its not worth for the amount work that goes in.

Mum of about to be 4th year medic here. Wanted to be doctor from aged about 7. Very into science in primary school, good at maths, v average English. Failed 11plus which only made them more determined. Important to maintain lots of non-academic interests and lots of friends, all work and no play…
If they really want it, you won’t stop them but as a medic myself I made sure she went into it with eyes wide open - geriatric work experience, general practice etc so they really understand what is ahead. She loves it.

Another mum of a fourth year med student here. She is enjoying the course and still positive.
She wanted to do medicine from about year 8. Very very academic and focussed. Always worked tremendously hard. But she is also just the nicest kindest person. She's very realistic about medicine as a career but we have no medics in the family to give personal advice. I'm hoping that she continues to want to do it as a career but appreciate that many many doctors are leaving the profession and/or are disillusioned.

I’d try to keep it broad too. There are loads of great careers in health including medical scientists and roles in audiology, cardiology etc. Also lots of great professions under the Allied Health Professionals umbrella with mostly better hours and work/life balance than medicine.

Don’t encourage her.

medicine in the uk is destroying people at all
levels.

people who can are retiring early.

juniors moving abroad for early training. Spoke to eldest today - she’s nearly 30 and her 3 uni medic mates are all very unhappy. One has dropped to 80% is a little better. But only a little.

so many other things she can do with her life and enjoy it for many years

If all the very cleverest people studied medicine then there wouldn't be any clever people left to study anything else.

Just let her explore all her interests. I would say Medicine is more about high competency rather than being super clever. Clever is not the same as being very consistently competent.

It's far too early to be thinking about how to boost grades to get into medicine. Let her start secondary and get settled in. Support her to do her best. Time will tell if she is suited to medicine and if she still wants to do it.