Anyone else having to take a (big) step back?

[bitachey]

DS in year 13 just so belligerent and stressed about A levels. I talked lots to him about universities last year and we visited a few open days. He barely wants to discuss it although he says he does want to go to university.

I think he’s going to aim low, aided by school which just want offers IMO rather than being aspirational.

I’m just so frustrated and fed up with it all. I’ve decided not to mention it at all. Hopefully school will gee him up about UCAS or he’ll decide to take a gap year. I honestly have had though! I massively supported my eldest and he did well and is thriving but my second is so much more oppositional. Urghhh - it goes against my instincts but I think he needs to take ownership as he seems very resentful of anyone trying to help. His brother told him tonight he only had 3 months and he looked shocked! (We’re away for Christmas)

Anyone else in a similar boat?

@bitachey that sounds tough for you and frustrating - is there any chance they just don’t feel ready yet and would benefit from applying post A Level knowing what their grades are and being a year older. So many aren’t sure yet and in a sense why should they be?

@Juja Yes I think so but he says he doesn’t want a gap year. I’m concerned he isn’t mature enough to cope with the lack of structure at university.

Also why should be shell out if he’s not going to apply himself? We’ve self funded his brother but he’s worked a lot harder and is more self motivated. He also got into a RG group (through clearing) so there’s more value. I just feel with the low aim I don’t see why we should pay for a degree without much value when he could do so much better if he applied himself.

Hopefully it will all come good as he should get A/Bs if he works.

He sounds terrified and not ready. However, they do make a jump forward this year. It might be that his peers taking action will help him.

Do step back and listen hard. And are you seriously saying you're not going to fund his studies if it's not RG? That doesn't make sense. It sounds like he needs your genuine support far more than your oldest.

I found it helpful to offer lifts to activities to friends of his who were doing different paths and ask them what they were doing in front of ds.

@PermanentTemporary thanks. We’re in Scotland so he could go to university here for free but he’s determined he wants to go to England. I’m just saying that why should we fund that if he’s not going to apply himself. He doesn’t seem to have really understood the finances. I’ve not had that conversation with him as if feels very negative and I’m trying to be positive.

Interestingly, after I put this message up he asked if I’d spend a bit of time each week with him looking at universities. So I’m glad I took a step back.

I think Covid lockdown has knocked his confidence hard. He’d particularly struggled with Maths this year too and has slightly scary teachers and most of his classmates are applying to Oxbridge! We have got him some holiday tutoring to try to help.

All of his peers are going to university so not much variation there. He has quite varied interests and is doing Lamda grade 8 performing. He’s talented but is determined not to do anything drama related!

I really encouraged a gap year for all those reasons but he has said very clearly - no he doesn’t want to!

Rightly or wrongly my parents didn't engage that much in my A levels or university application. There was zero pressure or assumption that I would even go to university despite being a straight A student. I can't imagine having parents being this invested in my life choices at that age, and think it would have really put me off. Maybe he doesn't really know what he wants and is feeling pressured by you/school/friends?

Tell him in no uncertain terms that if he wants to work for a year and save up for a bit before going to uni that you'll be fully supportive.

@MistyBean it’s the way it is these days but yes I agree! Do you have teenagers?

I have taken a big step back and will continue to do so. It’s just hard to watch him self sabotage. I veer from being supportive to feeling infuriated (he’s very belligerent at times and everyone feels his moods). I have said at the end of the day he can retake (when he said he was worried he was going to fail) but obviously it would be better not to! It would be easier to be sympathetic if he was working harder.

Sometimes the moods are to do with stress and he may be under extra pressure as he sensing he won't do as well as his brother. My ds was so bad at that age that the principal called a meeting with us, his parents in an effort to motivate him but he was wondering what all the fuss was about. Then he decided what college he wanted to go to..mainly because some friends were going. Suddenly knuckled down. Had me revising stuff. It was like he needed to know what it was all for and a definite goal decided by himself. Ended up getting a first with an Erasmus year abroad followed by a Masters. Couldn't have seen it happening. Now working in a good job in tech stuff and loves it.
It's encouraging he wants to look at universities. Just go along with him...no speeches. Having that before him will get him going.

Quite often with teens, it’s not what you say but the way you say it. So, giving him a three month deadline and nagging him could become, “UCAS applications have to be in by December. Is there anything you want help with or how can I support you?” Then leave it.

in terms of choice of university, all you need to say to him is choose the course and then aim for the best universities that match his predicted grades. For some courses this wouldn’t necessarily be a Russell Group university.

He will feel in control and hopefully choose to work with you as opposed to it becoming a point of conflict.

Parents (and students) go through hell and high water to get to the highest rated university they can. And if it's been a struggle and DS/DD finally gets to that university, it's a huge relief. Settling for a lower ranked university can feel like failure. However, passing the exams at the top unis brings another pressure and then there's the danger of not getting a first or 2.1.
Better for your son to apply for some middling unis and have less pressure. It doesn't matter where his friends go, it shouldn't matter to you either. But reading your post, I think it does matter very much to you.
Speaking as a parent whose two children went to very different unis and the child who aimed lower is doing equally well, let your son choose his own university.

I should add, my son made his UCAS application on deadline day.

@bitachey it is such a tough stage for parents and young people. Please be kind on yourself - good to share on Mumsnet 😊though no easy answers. I’ve found it helpful with a DS who is infuriatingly chaotic at times (we now know why which helps).

Like others have said stress for your DS may play a big part. He has till Jan to apply so plenty of time. Great he wants to talk about unis - can you go and visit some together? Even if there aren’t open days you can wonder about the campus / city.. Travelling often a good time for relaxed conversations.
hang in there… lots of people here to support you:

@LovelyDaaling completely agree- lots of good less prestigious Unis - the right fit is important so they flourish as a person

To be fair his older brother only got BBC grades so it’s not that he’s a particular high flier it’s just he worked hard and managed to get in through clearing. I’m not fussed on RG but what I am bothered about is being expected to fork out for a not great course at a low ranked University when he could do a lot better. Be clear, I’m not expecting him to get into St A, Durham etc!!! If he wants to aim low then he can go to Scottish universities for free and there are many good courses with relatively low requirements.

Thanks to those who gave me ideas on how to broach this with him - great tips there. We’ve been to a few open days but I’ll see if he wants to go to more.

We were in a very similar position last year OP. DS1 had found Y12 lockdown learning very hard and the start of Y13 was very stressful. He said wanted to go to university, but this time last year he was nowhere near on track with target grades and was bombing mock assessments. He is also a champion procrastinator and can be very defensive (in his case this is predominantly due to ADHD/ASD diagnoses) and I was dreading the UCAS process.

My top tip would be to take it in bite sized chunks, little and often (like a half hour or hour here or there). The combination of Y13 study and UCAS can feel like the most massive mountain to climb, for a teen and that's when you get the stressed out belligerence. Great if they're motivated, focused and independent -but lots do need support to get through the stages of the process.

You mention he's now asked if you'll spend a bit of time with him each week looking at uni stuff. That's a great start. Does he know what he'd like to study? Or where? Help him break down the process. Subject choice, long list, short list. Sit down for an hour every so often. Do it over a drink and a piece of cake. Try to be non-confrontational - if he's not in the mood, postpone to another time. Go on UCAS together and do an undergraduate course search. Look at uni locations and course entry requirements. Google earth can be really helpful to get a snapshot feel for a city. Book a few open days, and plan days out together around them - i.e. a nice lunch, or a takeaway when you get home (never yet met a teenage boy who's not immensely cheered by the thought of food ).

And finally, don't fixate on the Russell Group - there are plenty of decent non RG universities. In all honesty we deliberately targeted non Russell Group, as DH and I were worried that there would be lots of super high achievers at those, which DS would find overwhelming and which could massively knock his confidence - even if he managed to get in to one, which at this point last year was looking highly unlikely! Obviously I realise not all RG students are polished confident superstars but it can't be denied that high achieving private/grammar/state school kids will all mostly aim for Oxbridge or RG so there will be a fair bit of 'confident polish' at many establishments. We felt a more mid tier uni might be a bit more down to earth and the environment possibly suit DS better. it is also definitely bearing in mind that many of the non RG universities might have better reputations for particular courses than some of the big guns.

After all last year's stress my DS ended up achieving A star BB and is off to his first choice - as planned, a lower tier non RG uni but actually ranked in the top 20 nationally for his course. We got there in the end and I am sure you and DS will too - good luck.

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The school should do a lot. Our school signed up to Unifrog which was good for those who weren’t sure what to do. Open days obviously only run for a set period. I went to some but also encouraged ds to go to some by train with his friends. I think this is a situation where peer pressure helps. DS1 was all set to put one uni as top choice but at last minute firmed another because it was higher rated for subject which I was gobsmacked by as didn’t think he cared about that. It was also a uni I had suggested we see because it was nearby and easy to pop along to the open day as he wasn’t going to bother. Just keep options open, try and see a wide range. while he may not seem ready now the combination of his peers making decisions and school being on his back should mean you don’t have to intervene too much. The school should know his predicted grades and point out if he is aiming too low. Generally they say 2 aspirational, 2 solid bets and 1 back up. Remember he doesn’t have to choose firm/insurance until May.

I left my 3 to it and only got involved when asked

Also why should be shell out if he’s not going to apply himself? We’ve self funded his brother but he’s worked a lot harder and is more self motivated.

It really sounds as though a gap year would be an excellent idea.

Failing that ...could you say that you will fund only part of it by topping up his loan? That he will have to take out a tuition fee loan, and whatever maintenance loan he's eligible for? The accumulation of debt may give him pause ...

I wouldn’t fund his brother to study in RUK but not your younger son. I think that could send an unhelpful message, which could impact both your relationship with him and his with his brother. He needs to know you believe in him, when he might be struggling to believe in himself.

I have a defensive child as well and it can be trying, very trying! Hang in there, he needs you more than he realises. If he is academically able it will hopefully come good. If the results are not what he hopes for, there are many stories on mumsnet about resitting that have turned out well. Good luck to you both.

Thank you so much everyone for your wise words. I really appreciate the support. He’s not an easy one to help. I will continue to take a step back. I like the idea of “you have 3 months for your UCAS let us know if we can do anything to help…” Hopefully the momentum will get going with peers/school. It sounds like maths is going a bit better too. Fingers crossed. He knows he needs to keep working at it as last year’s work isn’t secure.