2023 uni applications for those pursuing art and creative routes

[Duchessofmuchness]

The other thread discussing Uni applications for RG and academic routes isn't so relevant for DS. He's considering Art Foundation year or direct entry to uni for fashion design.

Anyone care to join a thread on similar creative paths. (Not just fashion!)

He's looking at art foundation at Kingston, Central St Martin's, UCA,

For Fashion BA looking at Central St Martins, London College of Fashion, Manchester Met, Nottingham Trent, Liverpool John Moores, Leeds Beckett.

Most seem to accept without art foundation but he would need one to Central St Martin's so if he wants to try for that will need foundation.

Lots of open days coming up and hopefully school will give him some more advice next week. No start on his PS yet!!

@Philandbill I don't think it has a direct relationship (creatives in particular not getting on with exams). Though agree the value of more creative subjects seems to be always questioned unless pursuing that direction.
It's a terrible pressured system in this country (I did not grow up here) and if you are not academic you suffer, but being creative does not necessarily mean not academic. My daughter in particular hates the assumption that 'arty' means wacky and messy and ditzy and not particularly bright.
I think the exam based system is deeply flawed. As is the university admission focus on three snapshot grades. A more holistic system would benefit even the most academic students who would not have to restrict their learning to just three or at most four subjects. IB does not offer much wider choice due to its own requirements. Far better a continuation of the broad gcse subjects and course graded rather than final exams. The in depth knowledge gained through A levels is, for the vast majority of degrees, not essential. And even specific professions like medicine and engineering could benefit from broader learning.
Ok rant over.

I'll just second @mondaytosunday's rant. The system here is crazy in many ways; I taught in a highschool in the USA for four years, and that seemed generally better (although it had its own problems, and if you think that UCAS is crazy, well,...). The trouble is that both schools and universities are invested in the status quo; because of specialisation, we have shorter university courses than most other countries and adding an extra year would have a huge impact. (I know Scotland is different at both levels.)

I should say that our system does work for some students, and also it's fun as a teacher (and maybe even as a student) to go into a decent amount of detail about a limited range of subjects. But...

My own DD ended up with "decent" A-level grades by real-world rather than MN standards (124 UCAS points). She actually enjoyed her most 'academic' subject (Ancient History) far more than Art, because the latter was all about ticking endless boxes!

God yes to the box ticking! Art A level sometimes seems like an exercise in turning creatives into just the opposite!
Looking at 'I got an A star' YouTube videos and it really seems that it's not so much about talent and skill as meeting the marking criteria (which I know is the case with academic subjects, and I realise there has to be a benchmark to level the playing field, but still). It doesn't seem to foster much by way of experimentation and exploration, no it has to be artist research, annotation and fill that damn sketchbook. Art by definition is so individual it's almost impossible to grade it - and you can work incredibly hard but never reach the level of someone with more innate talent. Also creative types want to do their art, not be dictated to - my daughter often says 'my art teacher wants me to do this, but I don't want to'. He is good in that he doesn't provide any solutions and wants her to figure things out, but he also knows what kind of things will get a good grade.
I suppose the good thing is art schools look at the work, not the grades.

There are aspects to A level art which are problematic - because they are oriented towards a critique of art rather than art itself. Dd is struggling a bit with that.

In the end this is one of those avenues where talent will will out - but there are processes (especially in this digital age ) that can be usefully taught.

I think higher ed processes of teaching will be radically overhauled in the next decade - we are just caught in the transition.

A level art is terrible- in trying to take something creative and turn it into an academic subject it's as if they have tried to break down what Art is into a formulaic exercise. My dd really struggles with it. She often just has a moment of inspiration where she gets a vision for a finished piece in her head and immediately sets to work creating it. However, she then doesn't have all the steps to show how she got there and if she wants to include the piece in her coursework she has to then start working backwards and create 'fake' sketchbook work to engineer the piece in.

@FancyFanny I agree, my DD feels much the same. The supposed "development" and even other "rejected ideas" often are created after the main piece. Although I feel creativity has a new meaning in the curriculum. The formulaic approach to "creative writing" in English made it seem (imo) the least creative thing imaginable. One rule was to ensure no sentence had more than 15 words! That would surely have sucked any creative enjoyment out of the piece!

I did A level art in the late 1990s. Then, although you were supposedly given an element of choice, you never got a good mark or positive comments from the teacher, unless you drew still life or life drawing in oil, pastel or charcoal. Anyone who wanted to do anything sculptural, or cartoon style or with mixed media was strongly advised they should draw a vase or a bowl of fruit instead!!

The formulaic approach to "creative writing" in English made it seem (imo) the least creative thing imaginable. One rule was to ensure no sentence had more than 15 words! That would surely have sucked any creative enjoyment out of the piece!

DH is a writer and he says that some of his writing nowadays has to conform to a particular software algorithm which dictates length of sentences, highlights words that are deemed to be 'too difficult' for the reader, requires any list of points to be bullet-pointed for 'easier accessibility' and so on. He finds it profoundly depressing (profoundly would be flagged as too difficult).

So far this only happens when he writes for American readers but you're right @Fizbosshoes it sucks out much of the creativity, it is just writing by rote.

Same with my DC! And pupils with far less technical ability got better grades at GCSE and A-level because they did better research dossiers.

But isn't this the same at art schools? The secondary school art teachers, who criticise my DC for focusing too much on making/doing art and not enough on showing research, say that this planning and critical work is what the foundation admissions arbiters will want to see. The academic discipline seems skewed in favour of those who can talk about art over those who are good at drawing, sculpting, etc.

@FactyFrances I would say that it depends on the art school and the course! Can't speak about foundation, but my DD's portfolio included a couple of pages of "A level" style 'research/development' and then went on to lots of actual art. One of her UCAS choices asked her for an essay about her influences etc etc and she turned them down because of that.

Her first year work at uni contains a few "mini essays" but they are all about "when would you use this technique and why?" rather than history/analysis.

Foundation for my DS has been all.about primary research and contextual studies. They don't want him to look too far ahead in a project. They want his outcomes to flow from his primary research.
This is because they believe practising artists mainly use hard work and graft rather than pure talent.
I think A level is trying to do this too but without the time needed to devote to it.
My DS likes studying other artists to gain inspiration.... and he has found it hard but liberating to not focus on an end point but just explore for a good chunk of time.

That does sound interesting Lotts. Where is your DS doing his foundation? I’m sure you’ve probably said but this thread has grown.I’ve seen first hand how keeping on keeping on can create success.

DMU in Leicester.
He has scheduled life drawing and digital arts sessions weekly.
The rest of the time is spent on projects (after he was inducted into all the workshops in the first 7 weeks when they also did colour theory and learnt development techniques as well as loads of drawing from life in a variety of places (zoo, old mill etc)).
He has just finished a 5 week project. First 2 weeks were primary research and contextual studies (4 required- only a side of a4). He filled 2 sketch books with drawings from life.
Then 2 weeks of 'coming out of the sketch book' using all the techniques they learnt in the first 7 weeks. So going from 2d to 3d and back again. Photography, workshops of their choice (print and plaster for DS and he also tried wood too) digital manipulation etc.
Then a week of reflection and refinement with a brief assessment at the end.
For all the first 4 weeks they were encouraged not to think of an end point.
He is on a fine art Pathway but the first 7 weeks everyone did the same thing before picking a Pathway.
I think it will really help him in degree to have some ways to move forward with his work. He would have sunk if he'd gone straight to degree and been left to get on with it.

Some dev stuff from his last project... very varied!

Looks great @Lottsbiffandsmudge!

Those are really nice pieces, @Lottsbiffandsmudge!

Fascinating to hear how different that is from DD's course, where the approach is all about the end-point and getting there as quickly as possible. I suppose that's the difference between design and fine art... and, come to think of it, the A-level she did was "Fine Art" rather than "Design"! Thank goodness there's room for lots of different approaches (although the Foundation has to include bits of all of them).

DD is now home for the holidays and showed us her coursework for each of her three classes (Observational Drawing, including life; Digital and Animation; and Print). I really can't believe how much she's developed in just a few months. I know I've said that before, but art school is such an extraordinary experience. Especially being surrounded by people just as passionate about illustration as her, which is a first in her experience. So, hang on in there as DC go through the applicatin process!

She's also managed to finish the first draft of her first fantasy novella (!) and is busy formatting it with her illustrations. The bonus is that this can also count towards her "bookmaking" module next year (learning how illustrators and authors work together and the physical production of books),

DMU, of course, thanks Lotts, it sounds like a great course. I’m very impressed by your DS work.

Art is about so much more than technical skill though. There are many jobs in the art world which require a good eye and good ideas but not necessarily technical drawing/painting skills.

Some schools are more interested in formulaic direction of students to achieve certain grades but others are good even within the a level curriculum at developing creativity and allow students to develop in a more individual way. Was really impressed with Godalming as a state sixth form for their art department although it’s too far away for us.

Art schools are generally better at allowing students more freedom to develop in a more individual way although it’s all subjective and just like a level grades don’t really matter in terms of getting a place at art college, your class of degree doesn’t really matter to get a job as you use your portfolio for a job interview and it’s the work and the person which gets the job.

The research part is more to help students to start thinking more deeply about the work they’re creating so it has more meaning rather than just being technically proficient images. It’s just a shame with a level how they’ve even made the research quite formulaic. My dd has found it good though to develop her work further still into personal projects and these have been good for her portfolio.

@Lottsbiffandsmudge - that’s lovely work and really interesting to see. I had a friend who went to Leicester years ago and had a really good time - it’s not one my dd had on her list.

First offer came through for my dd from Leeds last week. That was the one with the very tight deadline for the portfolio but they only wanted 6 images and am not sure it’s my dd’s favourite.

@Acinonyx2 Have you heard anything yet from anywhere else? I think you said Leeds wasn’t a favourite either - did you get to visit?

@PerkyBlinder Hi yes - dd also got an offer from Leeds and from DMU. Portfolios still to submit for Herts and UCA. She has an interview portfolio to submit for Falmouth but is considering withdrawing that application to reduce the load - if she's sure she would rather go to Leeds. Herts and UCA still her top choices. It is a relief to see offers coming through!

Congratulations to those getting offers, and good luck with ongoing portfolio prep!

Congrats to those with offers!
Anyone else with a last minute child still not finalised the personal statement yet? Still waiting for feedback from her tutor I think, and needs to get rid of 50 characters or so..
I think she has some work that could go into a portfolio, so can hopefully pull it together when needed.

@Pourmeanotherwine I do. But she's at university this year doing an art foundation course and her tutors don't want it until January. As they are university tutors I'm hoping that they know what they are doing....

@Philandbill good to know mine's not the only one cutting it fine. DD is also doing foundation but at a local college. She gave her first draft to the tutor a couple of weeks ago but not heard back yet. Plenty of time left I guess. She's also only picked 3 universities so far, and then has about 5 "maybe" ones to pick between.

@Pourmeanotherwine @Philandbill my DS is similar. PS signed off and done factual bits of ucas but no actual unis entered yet. He's away at uni doing a foundation too. The tutors don't want to submit until 2 days before the ucas deadline so there is longer to do portfolios. It makes me incredibly nervous but I guess I have to let him get on with it and assume the uni know what they are doing. It's v different to school. But they have far fewer to deal with. We are not relying on them for checking tho!!!
DS A level certificates arrived today which is one less thing to worry about...