Is DS being set up to fail?

[CanThisBe]

He got reasonable GCSEs from a comprehensive school. An 8 in Maths but mostly 5/6s

He left school at 16 and has been employed in an engineering related field since.

Now, when most students have just had their A level results he has been offered a place on a Foundation year by a RG uni. If he passes, he's guaranteed a place on one of their maths or science degree courses. These courses typically ask for between AAA and ABB. There's nothing in his history to suggest he would have got those A levels, even if he'd taken them, which he didn't.

He wrote a good statement which demonstrated his interest in the subjects and has some extra curricular relevant experience. He did an interview where they set him some verbal questions around the subjects.

I'm wondering how someone with ordinary GCSEs and no further education can be expected to compete with AAA after a one year foundation course.

Have they offered not expecting him to pass, ie happy to just take the money? Will they pass him, but not expect him to do well at the degree or do they really expect their foundation year to bring him up to scratch?

Obviously he needs to work very hard, but if he does that....?

BBB gets you into both Oxon and Cambs.

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/course-listing/fyhumanities#:~:text=The%20Foundation%20Year%20is%20free,subject%20knowledge%20and%20academic%20confidence.

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/foundation-year

That’s a foundation course and they take next to no one. And I said CCC. Standard entry is AAA or above for competitive courses and universities for a reason. However we don’t know which course we are talking about here.

The foundation course will cover much less ground than 3 a levels.He is more like to get a lower class of degree than the A level people probably. Nearly every course except Oxbridge an Meducine is in the business of recruiting not selecting.

You do know degree apprenticeships only exist in a very small number of subjects yes? They're not the answer to everything by a looong way.

Like engineering? That the DS is currently employed in, as was mentioned in the OP.

Like engineering? That the DS is currently employed in, as was mentioned in the OP.

She doesn't say he wants to do an engineering degree though.

Evidence please?

I know a young person who dropped out of 6th form, got an apprenticeship, did BTEC, now very successfully at uni in STEM.
lots of people take the longer route.

Richard Rogers, architect was on the radio this week talking about leaving school without A levels and then working in a council drawing office before getting into uni to do a diploma. Clearly hasn’t held him back.

there is a professor of robotics with a background like your DS but I can’t remember his name.

Obviously they are exceptional but there’s a lot to be said for being a bit older and going when you are ready.

The good thing about a foundation year is you are taught what you need to know for the degree, e.g. Maths for engineers, so your DS should be well prepared for year one.

Good luck to him.

I left school with poor a levels (CCE) and did an apprenticeship. I got a place on a degree that gave you access to an RICS accredited degree if you 70% in the first year, I wouldn’t have been able to achieve a place on my A Level grades as it stood.

I very easily got a 70% because it was a practical based subject that I really enjoyed (agricultural surveying). It sounds like it’s a practical based degree in a subject he likes. My interest in writing history essays had absolutely no correlation to my ability or interest in my degree subject. Although it wasn’t a Russell Group uni, it was a highly rated, specialist uni with a 99% graduate employment rate and ranks 4th (above Cambridge) for female graduate salaries!

Secondary school doesn't work for a lot of people. It lacks for the full time pastoral support of primary school and the freedom of university. Also being 12-17 is rubbish anyway.

I don't believe a RG uni would take someone on who they didn't believe could pass.

@HannahDefoesTrenchcoat
Richard Rogers was talking about a world long long ago when it was unusual to have a degree at all and applying after work experience was normal. My DH has a BEng when they were all 3 years. No 4 year MEng. The world has moved on. It would be interesting to know what the degree is. Engineering would be a long slog without A level maths.

They're also very sought after with very high Alevel requirements and he doesn't have alevels.

@CanThisBe
Yes, the degree ones. There are lower level ones. So what does he want to study?

You do know degree apprenticeships only exist in a very small number of subjects yes? They're not the answer to everything by a looong way.

As someone who works at a uni offering masters level apprenticeships.. they're not as hard to come by as you think. Yes, you need an idea of subject to find them and apply but no, you don't need exceptionally high grades to get in.

Maths. He wants to study just out of a genuine interest in the challenge of the subject with no clear idea at this stage what he wants to do with it, but that sounds like the right reason to do a degree to me.

Also, FWIW, you can't actually be an engineer without a degree. Lots of lower level apprenticeships are offered in "engineering" but they're training technicians not engineers.

@CanThisBe
Yes. I do know that. DH is CEng, FICE, FIStructE. His employees have degrees. However it’s possible to start with BTecs and get into a degree but often they will ask for a maths A level too. Good luck with a maths degree with maths gcse. That sounds like a stretch to me unless he’s done more in the interim.

That's what the foundation year is for? I don't think your "good luck" is sincere 😆

As someone who works at a uni offering masters level apprenticeships.. they're not as hard to come by as you think. Yes, you need an idea of subject to find them and apply but no, you don't need exceptionally high grades to get in.

I do too! and the regulatory requirements are just awful And degree ones are very very competitive, and in limited vocational areas. Level 7 ones are much more straightforward ironically.

OP - maths is a tough ask. He'll need to work his socks off. But if he's got the maturity to do that he should be fine.

Masters level apprenticeships are not for 18 year olds though. Only 3500 got degree apprenticeships in 2021. They are very difficult to get.,

My husband left school with 2 GCSEs and did a foundation course a good few years later. Got on to the degree and graduated 1st class Hons. This was about four years ago now. A great opportunity for your son. Good luck!

@Sunshineday2
in maths? Or related to his job?

Actually OP I notice you said he could move onto either a Maths or Science degree - that's great. If he finds the maths really tough he'll have the option to move to a different degree - even a different university!

Hi OP - just to check I'm understanding correctly - your DS hasn't done maths A level but has got onto a foundation year at an RG university for a maths degree?

Would you be able to say which university and whether it is a maths specific foundation course or an engineering/ mathematical sciences one?

Sorry no, not in Maths and I realised the thread had moved on. Not related to his job though, computer sciences, which was quite a slog as he was so out of the education system by the time he embarked upon the degree.