Are some degrees more equal than others?

[sheepdogdelight]

Musing upon this really.

If student A gets a 2:1 from Oxford.
Student B gets a 2:1 from Aston
Student C gets a 2:1 from Wolverhampton

Are these degrees all of equal value?

I know some people will say the one from Oxford is worth more, because, well Oxford. And the one from Wolverhampton is worth less, because, ex polytechnic.
But have the students achieved equal academic excellence in reality?

It’s three hours drive and 140 miles away.

Virtually no jobs even require most of what’s in a more pedestrian degree. What attaining the degree says is at least as important as what’s actually in the course.

@HappyChloé2 which is one of the huge problems with our system. It’s a glorified v inefficient recruitment system. Companies want ‘the best’ (now judged by degree class) for jobs that don’t actually require a degree. Degrees have now become mega expensive. And now so many people have degrees, postgrad study is more of a distinguishing factor; along with many individual recruitment assessments. I guess it’s a bit like an arms race - candidates strive to collect lots of qualifications; then companies need to find new ways of picking out the ‘best’.

Post grad qualifications mean very little in some areas of work. Why would you want someone with a Masters in History for a HR role. Or a masters in anything besides HR. Grad jobs offer professional training so that’s often enough at that stage. It’s better to get work experience and think about how to get a job rather than further academic study. Science jobs are different but plenty of standard jobs don’t require an academic MA.

From what I know so far, a degree at e.g. Oxbridge, is a lot more intense and better standards, that some other universities, so yes a business degree at Oxbridge could be considered better value than e.g. A local city university.

@Hawkins001
The Said Business School at Oxford is world class. Economics and Business there is one of the most difficult courses to get a place on. 1:17 at the moment. Obviously some other universities are brilliant too but you cannot compare these courses with local offerings. To be fair, they serve a different market. Many new universities serve their local area. They are not world leaders or are ever going to be. You can easily get a place there. However most people do use league tables and know that the Said Business School is beyond them. That doesn’t mean a local course in business is not worthwhile but earnings are unlikely to compare.

Some universities ‘select’ students, others ‘recruit’ students. It’s easy to see how and why employers use this as a proxy to work out who they perceive are the best candidates.

@TizerorFizz sorry but that's not a degree classifications table. That's a term time marking table.

Some universities ‘select’ students, others ‘recruit’ students. It’s easy to see how and why employers use this as a proxy to work out who they perceive are the best candidates.

That's a very good way of looking at it!

Oxbridge and Imperial go through a thorough process of entrance tests and interviews to select the 'best' students who will thrive there.

Other Unis want to fill their places.

In other countries (eg Germany) the undergraduate degree is usually geared towards a particular type of job. University isn't seen as an opportunity to continue to study a subject you've been studying at school. They find our focus on academic subjects strange.

"So who is right? Does it depend on the degree course?" The free market is right and never lies. Better universities are usually the best plae to go no matter what the course, always, full stop. That is why the best state (and private ) schools send people to the better ones and it is why those from there have higher grades and do better in terms of careers in life.

The harder it is to get into the better it is is a pretty good way to assess them. Look at the linkedin profiles of new graduates hired by companies where you want to work and look at where they went - that might well help show where to go. I did a very unscientific search of a firm this week. Oxford, Exeter, London, Nottingham. If I had been looking at a very top one there would have been more Oxbridge/Bristol/Durham/LSE and less Nottingham. Obviously there are always one or two contextual people with different institutions of course but they are the outliers.

Not for marine science, it isn't. Overall, yes, it's higher ranked, but as @Choconut says Plymouth is very highly regarded for marine science.

Quite a lot of the former polys specialise in one particular area, and in that area they definitely shouldn't be automatically assumed to be worse than a RG place; subject league tables tend to be of more use than overall ones in this respect.

Also, I wouldn't infer too much about a university course from its entry requirements – those tell you which universities attract the most high-achieving A level students, but they don't tell you anything about the quality of the course, or of the lecturers/tutors, or of the teaching. All of which can make a huge difference over 3-4 years of study.

So yes, Oxbridge is objectively 'more equal' than other universities, but beyond that an RG university might not be better than a former poly in every subject.

I do not agree with your opinion. 😃

Well that's the whole point of these boards, isn't it? To get a range of opinions.

That Plymouth is ranked above Southampton for marine science isn't an opinion, however. It's a fact. As is the fact that Southampton is ranked higher in general.

Correct. My opinion is, I would do Marine biology/whatever at Southampton any day over Portsmouth.

But it is much harder to get into, they have a world class new centre for Oceangraphy (something like that) it is a much, much higher rated RGuni.

Our opinions differ, that is fine.

*Plymouth or Portsmouth

I think the course vs university discussion depends a lot on future employment.

A computer games developer, recruiting for a specific technical role, for example, might well rate an Abertay graduate from a particular course vs a RG graduate in Computer Science.

On the other hand, a ‘mass graduate employer’, looking to train a variety of graduates into a job where company / professional training will be given, might rate the RG graduate higher.

An extreme case would be the music / dance / drama Conservatoires, whose degrees (for historical reasons) are validated by a range of ‘degree awarding bodies’ who are not necessarily of the same calibre as the Conservatoire. That doesn’t mean that an ensemble looking fir an Early Music specialist would value a graduate from a RG university against an applicant from Conservatoire, despite the ‘low status’ of the technical ‘degree awarding body’.

I would assume that someone keen on doing a marine biology course is aiming to get into that field as it's so specific. Interestingly, the 'career after 15 months' figures for graduates in marine science at Plymouth and Southampton are almost identical – I would extrapolate from that that people in the industry know the merits of that particular course at Plymouth.

If you were doing a less specific course, or didn't particularly want to go into marine biology as a career then yes, I'd agree with you that Southampton offers better opportunities.

Southampton has had a brilliant reputation for marine biology for years.
Employers will not be 21.

@beachcitygirl
A5 or better is a first. You need A5 overall. Of course a marking scheme can be equated to a degree classification. That’s usually the point of it. No one would understand A5 or better in the big wide world! Why on earth would Glasgow be 80% and Edinburgh 70%? No one would go to Glasgow. St Andrew’s also falls into line with a similar banding as everyone else.

I did some personal research many years ago and found it was impossible to tell if an English degree at eg Wolverhampton was worth similar to an English degree at eg Plymouth. The answer was not forthcoming because there was no standardisation between unis. So, how do you know if the course materials are well organised and rigorous? If you go to Oxbridge how do you know if you’ve received the best because you assumed it would give you the best education at degree level?

You know at Oxbridge because DC going there have been selected from huge numbers of applicants. They haven’t just got A levels, they’ve passed numerous other tests too, including an interview. At nearly everywhere else, these other tests don’t apply. So then you look at what the university asks for regarding A levels.

It’s also very likely Oxbridge students have worked harder. Shorter terms snd more work to do. They get tutorials and have to do a lot of prep. So employers know they get DC who can cope with a lot of work. It’s less likely they care about anyone’s analysis of early 18th century poetry or the musings of Sylvia Plath. It’s also worth noting that English degrees have poor financial outcomes for grads, so going to the best university you can is very much the best investment. The IFS tables put the subject firmly in the lower section of earners.

Oxbridge students get 1 to 1 or 1 to 2 tutorials, and probably smaller group sessions than at other universities too. Extra curricular activities (run by students) are often very high level, with a very "can do" vibe. In my experience Oxbridge graduates have more confidence in speaking out.

@TizerorFizz

glasgowguardian.co.uk/2015/02/06/you-need-what-to-get-a-first/

It may be broadly the case that if a student is going to do an 'academic' subject such as English or Classics then they'd better do it at an 'academic' university.

Whereas if they're doing a very vocational one with externally set and monitored criteria eg nursing then the considerations are very different.

In between those, there are sciences and engineering where there are a range of courses at different types of institution, many of which will give useful skills and lead to good employability. The student needs to choose somewhere congruent with their abilities and aspirations. A STE (and to a lesser extent M) degree can suit someone very 'academic', or very practical - generally some mix of both.