University cost

[maeveiscurious]

Is there anywhere we can view the cost of going vs the cost of not going to university. Ie fees vs apprenticeship

Well fees are fairly standard, at (you can look it up for precision, but, off the top of my head) £9250 per year.
Generally speaking, most courses are 3 years, but there are some people that do an integrated masters and some that do a foundation year which makes it 4
(I'm talking about England btw, Scotland is different).

However
Most students don't see this money.
It goes straight to the University and is then repaid after the student starts earning above the base level, in the form of a tax.

ie, it isn't a loan in the usual sense. It doesn't matter how much you owe, the repayment is the same.
So if the student gets a full maintenance loan as well (again, around £9250) and does a 3 yr course, they will have taken out about £55,000 in loans (give or take) but most students don't ever pay that amount back.
When they earn more than (again, you can google the precise figure, but for now say it is) £28K, then, over a year, they pay 9% of the amount over the £28K.
So if they earned £28,100, they would pay back £9 a year.
If they had only had the minimum maintenance loan, and therefore "only" owe £41K, they are still paying back exactly the same amount.

If they stop work at any point in the future (illness, SAHP, accident, go to start their own business which doesn't earn much, stop to re train, or to travel the world or whatever) they won't pay anything that year. If thy go part time and earn under the threshold then they they won't pay anything that year.

If you do an apprenticeship then you don't have student loans. Apprenticeships vary wildly. You can do apprenticeships at various levels (Level 2, 3, etc, Level 6 is degree equivalent I think).

To have this explained FAR better than me, look at Martin Lewis (just google) and he will explain it much better, and probably with the correct figures.

It goes straight to the University and is then repaid after the student starts earning above the base level, in the form of a tax. ie, it isn't a loan in the usual sense. It doesn't matter how much you owe, the repayment is the same.

No, a student loan is most definitely a loan and not a tax. Just because it is government regulated and has income based repayments, that doesn’t make a loan into a tax. Especially since taxes are by definition payments made to the State/Government and student loan repayments are made to the SLC- a private profit making corporation.

So if the student gets a full maintenance loan as well (again, around £9250) and does a 3 yr course, they will have taken out about £55,000 in loans (give or take) but most students don't ever pay that amount back.

The student loan rules can be changed at any time by a change in government regulation. So the T&Cs the student signs up to can be changed at any time during the decades long term of the loan. In addition, if the student drops out and never graduates, they still have owe the money and repayments will start if they meet the income threshold.

Student loans are undergoing a massive change for students starting in 2023 onwards. Students starting this year will be the last under the current loan system. Here is a table showing you how much they’d pay back based on starting salary under the current/old system vs the new system. It’s based on a borrowed amount of £55k.

For the uni vs no uni analysis a recent study was done showing that:

Women’s earnings increase by £100k on average with a degree and £130k for men over the course of their working life – after student loan payments and taxes are factored in;

Graduates will earn on average 20% more over their working life than those who did not go to university;

www.gov.uk/government/news/graduates-enjoy-100k-earnings-bonus-over-lifetime

I don't understand that table @Discovereads . First snd last columns yes but what do the middle two refer too?

Ok,
So second column is the total repayments a student would make assuming the starting salary in the first column under the current student loan system. The current loan systems last year of entry is this school year. Students that start Uni this Sept 22 will be under the current system until they graduate (or drop out). The total repayments are based on a borrowed principal amount of £55k.

The third column is the total repayments a student would make assuming the starting salary in the first column under the new student loan system that will apply to every Uni student starting in Sept 23 onwards. Total repayments are based on a borrowed principal amount of £55k

As you can see, a student projected to be an average earner (£30k starting salary) and starting Uni this year 22 will pay far less in repayments than students starting Uni next year 23.

It’s such that the old advice of “most graduates won’t pay it all back” will no longer be true. It will become “most graduates will pay it all back plus interest”

SLC - Student Loans Company, contrary to @Discovereads assertion above, is a non-profit making government owned organisation that administers loans and grants to students in colleges and universities in the UK.

whilst it was incorporated as a private limited company in 1989 and started trading in 1990 it is required to operate within the limits of a framework document between the company and the government. It is owned by the Secretary of State for Education, the Scottish Ministers, the Welsh Ministers and the Minister for the Economy in Northern Ireland. It is entirely government-funded and non-profit making.

Sorry, I had a lapse of memory there and was inexcusably incorrect. Yes SLC is a private company but not profit making.

However, the SLC periodically sells on the student loans to private profit making corporations which is who the majority of student repayments are paid to (not the SLC). These are companies such as Erudio, Arrow Global, and CarVal Investors.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38880809

Only if instructed to do so by the government. It really is just an administrative body. It cannot arbitrarily decide to take any unilateral action.

bur I quite agree that there is a risk that a government of the day could decide to sell loans on. Although as time passes that becomes increasingly politically fraught.

and equally as with tax rates, vat or indeed pretty much anything the loan conditions could be changed by any government as you point out.

Yes, I agree as SLC is government owned, it needs government direction to do anything.

The last sell off in 2017 of all 2002-2012 loans raised what £12bn? And we are now £2tn in debt. We can’t raise taxes due to the cost of living crisis. We can’t realistically cut taxes due to the debt and underfunding of our already crumbling infrastructure and public services- even though Truss is promising to do so. We can’t do quantitative easing due to inflation. Manufacturing, transport and hospitality are tanking due to high energy costs, shrinking the economy and lowering business related tax & tariff revenues.

I think selling off the next batch of student loans…which mind you are at least 3x the value as tuition fees tripled after 2012…is definitely an option being looked at. They’d be stupid not to.

On a side note, with the # EU students dropping, and the EU research funds drying up for U.K. universities due to Brexit, Unis are grumbling and demanding another increase in tuition fees. And they have been frozen for quite some time now, so they have a valid point. This next cohort may be one of last to have the improved /widened access chance to go to Uni. I think the accessibility for working class students will decline markedly if tuition fees go up much more. Especially with the new loans system of repaying at a lower wage threshold and paying for 10 more years….it’s going to deter a lot of aspiring young people.

It is a bit like a tax rather than a loan because if you are not earning, you don’t pay anything. If you take time out to have a family for instance. With a loan you’d still have to find a way to make the repayments.

Depends on the loan. Other loans have deferment T&Cs, mortgages for example have what’s known as ‘mortgage holidays’ where you don’t pay the repayments because you’re not earning, or due to a death and so on.

None of this conversation about loans - interesting as it is- mentions parental contributions that are expected to top up the loans.

The HOUSEHOLD income will be considered when assessing how much maintenance loan a student will get. I stress household because if a student has a step parent their income is considered, not that of any non resident biological parent. This can make a huge difference especially if the step parent is also paying maintenance to their non resident child(ren). No outgoings or other financial commitments are considered (although a small adjustment is made of more than one child in Uni at the same time). It’s a very blunt tool. If a student only qualifies for a minimum loan then they will often find this doesn’t even cover the costs if accommodation (assuming living away from home obvs). This is where parents are expected to “top up” and this is where many families come to the conclusion that they can’t afford a Uni education.

it goes without saying that with an apprenticeship where the student is more likely to be living at home and earning a small wage this additional cost will not be incurred by the family