UCAS 2023 Mandatory Application Qns

[portico]

Hi
The new UCAS 2023 has mandatory qns over and above the obligatory did you parents go to university. It is a dangerous piece of social engineering designed to deter middle class applicant of getting offers. Here is a snapshot:

“There are questions specifically for UK students – these are about your ethnic origin, national identity, and occupational background. These are mandatory questions used for monitoring purposes. This information will only be shared with universities and colleges after you have secured a place and will not influence any decision regarding your application.”

A good article breaks it down here:

www.advancingaccess.ac.uk/blog/a-guide-to-the-new-ucas-questions-for-2023-entry-onwards

"It is a dangerous piece of social engineering designed to deter middle class applicant of getting offers."

As it clearly explains in the article and on the UCAS form, that's not what they're designed for at all, if what you're saying is that they're to limit offers to middle class students.

It is a dangerous piece of social engineering designed to deter middle class applicant of getting offers.

Could you expand on why you think that please.

To me it looks a like a great way of recognising known social factors which impact performance and outcomes. I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with that.

Also, you're quote is from the wrong section. These questions will be shared with universities:

"We ask for information about personal circumstances – such as your parental education, if you’ve been in care, or involved in widening participation activities, so universities and colleges can form a more complete understanding of you as an individual. While this information is optional, it can help universities and colleges better understand your background, and provide support." From www.ucas.com/undergraduate/applying-university/filling-your-ucas-undergraduate-application

It's the questions about ethnicity that aren't shared.

Do you not see it as yet another obstacle to deter meritocratic advancement into university. Polar and Tundra measures already make it difficult for candidates, from both advantaged home postal codes and high performing schools, getting offers.

Local WhatsApp groups I’m involved have worried parents, including me.

How can it deter meritocratic advance if the unis don’t get it until after making their decision on a candidate?

"Polar and Tundra measures already make it difficult for candidates, from both advantaged home postal codes and high performing schools, getting offers"

They don't make it more difficult, they make it fairer. Not fair, but fairer. The new questions aim to add to that. If two applicants have the same grades, but one had every advantage and one every disadvantage, it is meritocratic that the student who has done better, achieving the grades despite their disadvantages, get the place.
This is a ridiculous example; it's rare that a university would be comparing two students side by side like this. But the idea stands. Your worried neighbours need to relax; if their child does well compared to other students with the same advantages they'll get their choice of places. If they're lower acheiving with that group, they'll still have a huge choice, but maybe not the tiny number of universities you see get named on here. They'll probably cope. After all, they have all the other advantages their middle-class, comfortable background has given them!

I sound flippant I know, and u understand why people might feel their individual child might be missing out compared to if they were just a few years older. But on a societal letter, of course it is better if less advantaged children have their situations taken into account when paying to universities, or we will continue with the fast overepresentation of certain schools amd postcodes in our state-funded universities.

Errr no they don't. Polar and tundra reflect the lack of uni goers, not the other way round.

Trust me, as a well off middle class family you have truly hit the jackpot of life. But you're too fucking mean to let the poor people have even a scrap.

You should be mortified. But you won't be.

"When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"

Sadly, I didn’t. I was a poor A Level student and got into a Polytechnic.

But, why should a child also be penalised for being born into a middle class family - especially if they have worked hard and gained great grades on merit. They have little agency in influencing university offers.

You supercilious prig. How many families, middle class or otherwise are doing well. We certainly aren’t.

How level do you think the playing field are.

I’m pretty sure, a law change will ensure unis get this mandated and intrusive, before they make a decision. Assuming they won’t be doing this in the coming cohort year.

Compared to the disadvantaged you are doing really well. You have no idea the lived life of some kids. You are not being penalised for being middle class. You are simply being made a standard offer. Really, why do you think you should get anything less than a standard offer?

Someone else is being made a contextual offer to take into account the shitty school they went to, the lack of support from home, the fact that they have to work/care for siblings/relatives, share the one ancient laptop in the 14th floor overcrowded flat they live in.

I’m pretty sure, a law change will ensure unis get this mandated and intrusive, before they make a decision. Assuming they won’t be doing this in the coming cohort year.

Why? What would be the point? You think unis are going to be lobbying to get this data so they can make sure they don't make any offers to black kids? Is that really what you think?

This ⬆

I am a person of colour, as is my family.

Where do you get off directing the following at me. My communication with you ends now:

“You think unis are going to be lobbying to get this data so they can make sure they don't make any offers to black kids? Is that really what you think?”

All these middle-class parents will be rushing to live in socially deprived areas, going to secondary moderns so their kids can have the advantage of a lower offer. I can't wait for that to happen.

Do they not do that in London, already. It goes under the guise of gentrification.

Do they not do that in London, already. It goes under the guise of gentrification.
No they don't. I realise you're not going to reply to me, but as you brought up London - check out how few polar quintile 1 postcodes there are in London.

All the research suggests that students who don't come from privileged/middle class backgrounds achieve better once they get to university, so I see this development as a good thing. We do want the best students at university, do we not, instead of the ones who have had it easiest?

Hi. Do you have URLs to the research you mentioned; I would be keen on reviewing them.
I agree that we want the best students at university - those that met or exceeded the normal threshold score to get in. By all means, allot a position, say 25% lower entry scores to the vulnerable/disadvantaged. Any more than that runs into the realms of unfairness.

www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Admissions-in-Context-Final_V2.pdf

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13603108.2019.1678076

Thank you. I will review these.

TBH they're the first couple of relevant pieces of research I came across specifically about contextual offers. I only scanned them but from what I can see the numbers are tiny.

I think it's worth considering that for a kid to even consider applying to Oxbridge/RG when they aren't predicted the usual grade requirements means there's a teacher who thinks they're capable and encourages them to aim their applications higher. I think we need to trust those teachers who see the potential.