University Open Days - what to look out for/find out?

[redskyatnight]

As per title - we are going to a university open day next week.

DD is only just about to start Year 12, so we have time ... but we wanted her to at least see what a university was like to give her an idea about future options.
I suspect we will just go with the flow and join in with the general tours/talks, but is there anything anyone would suggest is worth finding out/asking about?

@redskyatnight
Is it a possible option though? One unfortunate aspect of English is that it’s near the bottom of degrees for graduate earnings. Therefore if she can aim high she should. If she’s interested in a job that’s not teaching of course where university might matter less. Universities are not equal snd with do many more DC looking for jobs, it pays to do research into employability. I cannot see that modules at Northampton will tell you much. She might actually like the type of literature that’s challenging.

@CornishGem1975
Actually most DC do not go to open days in the guest few weeks of y12. Most wait until the summer term of y12 or early autumn of y13. They do of course look at info on line and get a feel of city vs campus uni and possible subjects. If you have week after week to explore or parents teach and are academics, they have built in knowledge, but most schools won’t give your DC a uni talk until later in y12. It’s time consuming snd expensive to visit loads and look at lots of options. That’s why most do a shortlist and go to a few but later in y12. No wonder open days are a scrum with DC going who don’t need to!

Northampton is 98th in the complete university guide. It’s an odd choice for looking at English.

Also have her think about and ask questions about the difference between studying English at A Level and as a degree subject. There is actually quite a difference, and students are often surprised ...

Oh, and pleeeeeeeeeeeeease

Let your DD ask the questions in sessions about the subject and in talking to staff and students. Don't ask them for her.

You can rehearse them with her, you can listen, and then during the day, if you feel she hasn't asked what she really wants to ask, go back to the staff/students. At my place, we have active teaching staff - at least 2 - plus current students there at our 'stall' in our Great Hall ready to talk to you. I love talking to possible applicants & finding out what t is they're really interested in and what they're doing. They're the ones who I'll be teaching.

It gets tricky, if parents take over, no matter how much the parent may justify it by "My DC is shy, and not able to ask questions." Rehearse, boost them, reassure them we want to hear from them, not parents! It's the students we'll have teaching relationships with, not their parents.

Of course, in sessions put on specifically for parents - accommodation, finance etc, please ask away!

Oh and agree with @TizerorFizz on looking carefully at English departments (Northampton is OK, but won't set the world on fire - there are far more interesting departments). In generalist degrees, such as English, or Biology, or Economics, it really DOES make a difference how research active the teaching staff are. So higher up the league tables is usually better for generalist degrees - and English Lit is nationally a very well-taught subject. There's quite a bit of intense face to face contact (it's pointless counting the hours - it's the nature & intensity of the contact that's really much more important).

I teach in a generalist humanities discipline, and I teach research-led modules. So I'm writing a book on a particular topic, and at least part of my teaching focuses on this subject: my students get the latest, cutting edge research fed into my teaching, and their responses also help me.

I also introduce my students to innovative research methods, and turn them into independent researchers - very useful skills for future working lives.

@LuftBalloons
I think there’s a big difference in the sheer volume of literature the students are expected to consume and the “compare and contrast”aspect of exam questions. My DD did a MFL literature heavy degree and even for that, additional knowledge was required. In her case Greek Gods! Nothing to do with French literature but - compare Greek God character etc! You had to know what character the Greek God had! Not on the syllabus. That’s what a very good research led university will expect. Not just dissect a book for 2 years! It should be fast paced and challenging!

Absolutely @TizerorFizz

When I taught (university) EngLit 20 years ago, our 1st years had to read a different play, or a novel, or a corpus of poetry every single week. I think standards have slipped a bit, but the volume & standard of thinking is much advanced from A Levels in English Literature.

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My niece did bioscience at Sheffield, she is now on a PG medical degree.

@redskyatnight

Has she had a look at 'liberal arts'?

It's similar tot he way US colleges work so you take a broad range of modules across several subjects usually arts, social sciences and often a language.

www.kcl.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/liberal-arts-ba

www.keele.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/undergraduatecourses/liberalarts/

Just out of interest @sashh did your DD always plan to use her bioscience as a way into medicine, or did she only decide to go down that route during her first degree?

Some of these new liberal arts degrees look great to me. It's a big thing in the US and I can see it becoming more popular over here too.

Lol :) Yeah we have not visited Bangor yet, but plan to in October, but have done all the rest. Its got an unusual layout with a lot of the buildings situated on a main road as opposed to a campus style, so will be interesting to see if she likes it.

It's my niece and I think that was her plan. She didn't get the grades for medicine as an UG and she knew she wouldn't.

I think it has ultimately been the right route for her, she did a lot of anatomy and physiology in her degree including dissecting a body over a couple of years.

There are so many medical careers that are not nurses and doctors but there isn't a lot of information about them.

I think there is often a class issue with what students go to uni for, working class students generally look at uni in the way their parents / grandparents would have seen an apprenticeship or something like nursing school / teacher training college.

But there is a lot to be said for just enjoying learning in a uni environment. Particularly as there are routes into many professions post graduate eg legal practice or PG medicine.

I think university now is an investment not just financially but in your self.

There are so many medical careers that are not nurses and doctors but there isn't a lot of information about them.

Well, there is: www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/explore-roles

In the internet age, the problem is usually that there's too much information so it becomes very difficult to find what you need among the adverts and the deliberately mislabelled pages.

We visited one in the early part of yr12 and it was really useful. I disagree that it makes it more of a scrum for the year above, because we have now seen that one and won't be going back so there is one more space this year. It also wasn't overcrowded.

It was useful to see the way an open day works - far more parents and even extended family than I would expect. It also helped to keep a focus for yr12 because it inspired her to work hard at her A levels early. Dd has to submit UCAS by mid Oct so most of yr13 open days are too late, so we were busy over the summer. I would though suggest only going if you think it is a realistic firm or provisional, especially as there are probably other universities within striking distance she could visit. Dd was sure beforehand that she didn't want the uni we visited first but ended up loving it. It has only not made the short list because it would not be a strategic application. If though your dd might love Northampton but could go to a better uni for her subject consider perhaps a slightly more aspirational open day.

Consider also whether there are other subjects she might also be interested in which she hasn't studied at GCSE. This is a good time to go to a few different subject talks. E.g. if interested in history consider also politics and international relationships.

I agree to get her to ask the questions if at all possible but plan a few questions together, although she will get more of an idea through going along to a few open days and listening in on other visitors. Also as she hones what it is she wants from university. The current students are really important to talk to as they will have an overview of the whole uni from a student perspective whereas the lecturer will probably have less of a view on whether the union bar is cheap or not and which halls are the party halls. Also possibly less intimidating.

I would also maybe get her to consider what sort of place she wants to live in - big city, smaller town, campus/ city uni.

Questions I will be asking when I do the rounds with DD:

• What is the university's policy on single sex spaces (i.e. does it segregate accommodation, toilets, changing rooms and sports by sex as opposed to self-identified gender identity)?

• What proactive steps does the university take to address the issue of sexual harassment and assault on university campuses?

• Does the university endorse or promote "sex work" to students?

Excellent advice and questions from @Unexpecteddrivinginstructor and @RhymesWithOrange

I know this is unpopular information on MN, but the accompanying family can make Open Days the squash they are, and intrusive parents really impede the conversations we (academics) can have with intending applicants. I get sick of being called upon to justify face to face hours to parents who come from entirely different disciplines than mine. It’s usually not the most productive question to ask, and not necessarily an indicator of that awful “value for money” thing that seems to be a prevailing (unhelpful) attitude towards higher education.

And @RhymesWithOrange ’s questions would be sadly difficult to answer at my place, where upper management have drunk the kool aid. I am girding my loins to point out to them that their policy on lavatories and change rooms is probably against the law …

@CornishGem1975 DD just got a place to do biosciences at uni - have visited loads of unis and lots of research please just ask on here or PM anytime

Always take a parent or older sibling.The whole thing is overwhelming for some plus you can always split up and go to different talks, accommodation visits and report back. Don’t take extras like grandparents plus if there are small siblings under 14 try and leave with relative or friend if you can.

These unis are great but they are businesses and attempting to advertise. You are seeing the advert and the front of the packet - think of a ready meal - front of packet looks fab with many claims but the back gives you the detail and inside often looks very different.

Having someone else can help with recall after the event and notice when someone dodges a question. Taking photos helps to recall details about campus, facilities and accommodation. (even useful when promises about things change during course).

Encourage your child to ask their own questions but be there to clarify if answers lack the detail required.

Most Unis seem to do accommodation which is 4-8 person flats with shared kitchens: go on a tour so your DD can see what that living situation might be like. How far is it from campus, what kind of costs, do they have decent bike parking, what do laundry rooms look like, what cleaning is provided, what kitchen equipment is provided, how big is the fridge, how big is an en suite room, etc. My teen liked seeing all that.

Start of yr12 is early to be looking, though. Most of them don't really engage with looking until end of yr12.

You can sign up for subject-specific talks. These may be for students only while parents are funneled off to practicalities-specific talks (like year overseas, accommodation policy, pastoral care, finance issues, etc).

ps; talk to the students who are helping on the day. Each of them considered at least 4 other Universities. they will give you unvarnished opinions.

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Thanks @Fruitygal I will take you up on that!

Make sure your child has read everything they’ve been sent, and made plans for the day as necessary - e.g. don’t miss the talk that’s only on once in favour of the the one that’s run twice and you could attend later, book for any talks that need it, etc. Get them to share their plans in a useful format. The first one we went to, DD thought she had it all in her head and was having to scrape through various emails and webpages to work out where we were going next. It got a bit fraught.

If your child is willing to do any of the day by themselves, let them. Then ideally sit somewhere and observe what’s going on round your (always one of my favourite activities). You might hear discussions between students that they won’t have when they know they’re on display. In my case I did this in what I termed the ‘parent crèche’ so it wasn’t quite so candid - but I did get a bonus chat with the vice chancellor I’d not have had if I’d followed DD round all day!

We did offer holder days in February this year as well as the open days in October/November last year. One involved mostly the same people, including one lead staff member who appeared to genuinely remember people who’d attended the open day, which was lovely. The other had different people, but the whole university and the department had put on quite a different day to the first one, which was more helpful than a rerun of the open day.

She’s going to the second of those two, and now I’ve made myself feel a little sad I’ll never see the people from the first again, they were so nice!

These unis are great but they are businesses and attempting to advertise. You are seeing the advert and the front of the packet - think of a ready meal - front of packet looks fab with many claims but the back gives you the detail and inside often looks very different.

Can I just say, as a veteran of 30 years of Open Days, talking to potential applicants (and then interviewing some of them for admission), I am definitely not advertising. I am trying to find out what the young person in front of me is really actually interested in, what area of my discipline they want the most, how they learn, what sort of person they are - and then responding to those impressions in terms of what my department/discipline might have to offer them.

I have even recommended other departments in my disciplines at other universities which might suit them.

We want applicants who consciously want to come to us, for our degree. It would be counter-productive to do a disingenuous "sell" of our degrees and our universities.

Placemarking