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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Accounting and finance personal statement

82 replies

halohell · 10/08/2022 15:07

Can anyone with experience of accounting and finance uni applications suggest some things my dc (between Y12 and Y13) could be doing (a) to learn more about accounting as a career and (b) for the UCAS personal statement. School haven't been very helpful. Obviously it's too late to get work experience over the summer, but I'm wondering about books, videos, online courses or anything else? Thanks.

OP posts:
SeasonFinale · 13/08/2022 14:34

Have a look at Bright Network. They sometimes have taster "online internships" that he could participate in and use the experience in a personal statement.

Needmoresleep · 14/08/2022 10:32

He has five choices on his UCAS form, so it would be fine including a couple of stretch ones. Top courses like LSE and Warwick will be very competitive and almost certainly most applicants will have more than published entry requirements. (Some Universities will publish applicant numbers.) His A level subject combination is good, and there will be less competition when you move away from top courses. Unless you are applying for Oxbridge you don't need to submit your application until the January deadline, so plenty of time.

Very competitive Universities reply heavily on the PS when sifting applicants. First step is to read their admissions information and course requirements carefully, and well as course content. Try to work out what they are looking for. Applications will probably be scored so if you can guess some of the things they might be scoring on you need to essentially evidence your interest.

I would be surprised if work experience, as such, is essential though it might be worth seeing if you can speak to a few accountants to understand better what they do and the range of careers available. Then deep dive into the internet. Find some popular accounting books, start following twitter accounts of academics in the field, watch TED talks. He should then start to understand which areas might interest him. I qualified with CIMA, because I was interested in micro-economics and management, which was a really good foundation for a pretty varied career. Others might be more interested in compliance or the legal side. It is important to remember that he will be applying for an academic degree, even if the ultimate aim is to gain as many exemptions as possible, so he should demonstrate academic interest.

Good luck.

TizerorFizz · 14/08/2022 12:05

LSE is pretty clear about what they want to see in a PS and give very good guidance. Work experience is not essential but it helps explain to them how you have explored the subject. They give other ways to broaden depth of knowledge and they have no preferred method.

notsureconfused · 14/08/2022 15:00

My son is just waiting for his A-level results for Maths, Economics and History too. Like your son he also wants to do accountancy and finance and like your son, he was also predicted AAA. The competition is really tough out there for anything Economics related so I would say that your son needs to manage his expectations (I'm sorry if that sounds harsh!) To put it in perspective, my son applied to Leeds, Durham, Edinburgh, York and Bristol and only got offers from York and Bristol despite the AAA predicted grades. We spoke to some current students at Leeds and they all had AAA!! My point being I would strongly advise not to waste any of the 5 options on Uni's he's very unlikely to get such a LSE.

notsureconfused · 14/08/2022 15:00

Above should say 2 A stars plus A...it didn't come out for some reason!

pinklavenders · 14/08/2022 15:04

I would expect many successful applicants to LSE to have taken Further Maths too.

LittleBearPad · 14/08/2022 15:04

Accounting & Finance really isn’t needed to be an accountant and cuts down his opportunity to do something much more interesting as an undergrad.

halohell · 14/08/2022 15:53

Thanks @notsureconfused that's interesting to hear of your son's experience. Good luck to him - I hope he gets the grades he needs. I have taked to ds about this. He hasn't finalised his choices yet and is planning to go to 2 or 3 open days in autumn. He may not put LSE in the end, but I think he is fairly realistic about how competitive it will be.

@LittleBearPad I've said this already, but ds isn't doing A&F because he mistakenly thinks it's the best or only path to becoming an accountant. He's looked at other degrees, and he thinks this one will suit him best and that he will find it interesting.

OP posts:
lot123 · 14/08/2022 16:15

I'm a (chartered) accountant (ex Big Four) and would echo the other poster about not doing A&F degree (sorry).

I've had the same conversation with my son today and I know it makes no logical sense but the more competitive graduate jobs tend to prefer a pure academic degree. Particularly if you want to qualify and go into something like investment banking (which most of my cohort did).

I understand it's because they'd find it an interesting degree (although, even as an accountant, that slightly bemuses me) but I'd then have found it a bit boring to re-cover the same stuff for the formal accountancy qualification (appreciate you may get some exemptions in the first year).

I don't think it rules anything out, particularly given some of the big firms do 'blind' pre-testing before interviews but I'd look at some other options even if it's just economics and finance.

In terms of experience, it sounds as if you've got that well sorted. When I was qualifying, there were a couple of supposed seminal works on manipulating accounts so perhaps look at some books around accountancy topics.

Dotcheck · 14/08/2022 16:17

WithFlamingLocksOfAuburnHair · 11/08/2022 11:35

Veering off topic, but working as an accountant in a big multinational, I'd do the degree, then the qualification. While the apprenticeship is great I think you would be limited when it comes to working for a big company - they expect degrees and the other business concepts you learn help you engage with business partners, do strategy and management. You can go into a training contract after the degree or go into industry and study at night, both getting paid and hands on experience.

Degree apprenticeships exist now where you also get an actual degree from a real university.

Dotcheck · 14/08/2022 16:23

OP

Why does he want to do accounting and finance?

What has sparked it? What further reading has he done? What observations has he made about the economy in the last few years?

Honestly- if he has a genuine interest in finance and if he follows up that interest with additional reading or research THAT is what he should be putting on his statement.

You can tell from a mile off when students have ticked boxes and done an activity or a course because it ‘looks good’.

TizerorFizz · 14/08/2022 16:24

Degree apprenticeships do exist but sometimes use lower tier universities. If you can get to a very good university, you are more portable post qualification I think. However apprenticeships for the best companies are very competitive too!

LittleBearPad · 14/08/2022 16:27

halohell · 14/08/2022 15:53

Thanks @notsureconfused that's interesting to hear of your son's experience. Good luck to him - I hope he gets the grades he needs. I have taked to ds about this. He hasn't finalised his choices yet and is planning to go to 2 or 3 open days in autumn. He may not put LSE in the end, but I think he is fairly realistic about how competitive it will be.

@LittleBearPad I've said this already, but ds isn't doing A&F because he mistakenly thinks it's the best or only path to becoming an accountant. He's looked at other degrees, and he thinks this one will suit him best and that he will find it interesting.

But he doesn’t seem to know much about it?

I’m more or less in the same shoes as @lot123 and agree with everything they say

pinklavenders · 14/08/2022 16:47

I feel a more general degree (Economics, Maths, Engineering etc) at a good Uni will open many more doors than a very narrow Accounting & Finance degree.

Logistria · 14/08/2022 17:01

I understand it's because they'd find it an interesting degree (although, even as an accountant, that slightly bemuses me) but I'd then have found it a bit boring to re-cover the same stuff for the formal accountancy qualification (appreciate you may get some exemptions in the first year).

I have to echo this - and I have read all your posts explaining his view. I get wanting to do a degree but I think he will regret the subject choice. I support our graduate trainees in my current role, so I'm not opposed to a degree route in principle (although as pp I would always check that someone asking your original question knows there are other paths as people often don't realise!).

When we have grads with accounting degrees they get bored and frustrated having to go over the same ground for exams (albeit from a different angle), feeling like they're "revising" their degree content for the first years of their training contract. Whilst at the same time discovering that a three year degree course doesn't actually make learning the practical side of the job much easier than it is for those coming to it cold. The theory and the practical are very different.

Some of them get really very disillusioned whereas our grads with non-accounting degrees (even where accountancy was always the plan) are much more engaged and motivated - they feel like they're progressing, our accounting grads feel like they're stagnating. And sometimes the accounting grads get quite pissed off they've got massive student debts and yet are not even able to do the practical part of accountancy any more easily than someone who did a marine biology or art history degree.

Whilst exemptions can be available we usually don't like people to take too many (if any) because it's harder to jump into the exams at the higher levels if they haven't built up the technique and experience (being professional exams not academic exams - different technique). Everyone I've watched try to take up exemptions to skip the foundation stages has just repeatedly failed the higher exams because they didn't have the experience of how to approach professional exams. (Which is why we usually say no.)

Even if it's only a few small sideways steps away from a pure accounting & finance degree, long term I would strongly encourage him to consider choosing a different course. Define which parts he expects to enjoy and look for other options where those elements are shared. I find it hard to believe that out of all the available degrees that there is only one viable possibility for him when he is basically only doing it for fun.

There's no point picking an enjoyable degree for the degree experience if the career he's specifically doing it for will be tedious and monotonous for three years as a direct result of that degree choice iyswim. That's not a nice way to start your career and not conducive to a strong foundation for career success.

lot123 · 14/08/2022 17:08

Everyone I've watched try to take up exemptions to skip the foundation stages has just repeatedly failed the higher exams because they didn't have the experience of how to approach professional exams. (Which is why we usually say no.)

This is very true. Accountancy firms are also less tolerant if you fail any of the foundation stage exams if you've had more than one exemption, at least at my firm.

This happened to one of my peers. We went straight into exams, he failed one (or possibly two) and our firm sacked him. He never even made it into the office for one day.

FudgeSundae · 14/08/2022 17:12

I work for a large international accountancy firm - trained with big 4 now mid tier (within top 10). I can tell you that we, and all our competitors, have extremely good school leaver programmes where you will train with a cohort and get your qualification while working. I can also tell you that accounting and finance is a completely pointless degree - anything worth knowing is repeated in your accountancy exams. If it was my child I would be discouraging uni in favour of one of the school leaver programmes - a brilliant career, accelerated start and no debt! If he is insistent on the “uni experience” then my suggestion b is a different subject - any other subject. There is genuinely no point in accounting and finance as a degree if you’re going to do the accountancy exams anyway. PM me if you want help.

Logistria · 14/08/2022 17:26

If he did join a big firm with a cohort as pp says, I would have a question mark about how much of the "uni experience" he would actually even miss out on. He would have a year group of peers and be spending a lot of time at college. It isn't like going full time into a workplace as an individual later in career where you're navigating alone.

Even outside mid tier firms he would still be joining a peer group system of first years, second years, third years etc and be out at college regularly. Young audit teams can party hard if that's what this is about.

But yeh, any degree subject except accounting.

123ZYX · 14/08/2022 17:36

I absolutely agree with everything @Logistria has said.

If he absolutely must do a degree, choose something much more interesting than accountancy and finance.

Rummikub · 14/08/2022 17:39

ShanghaiDiva · 13/08/2022 14:30

My ds studied accounting and finance at Warwick. To enhance his personal statement he spent four days in two different businesses in the accounts department and had a one hour chat with a partner at price waterhouse and spent some time with some of their new recruits too. He received offers from all five unis he applied to but not sure how much impact the personal statement made.

Out of interest how did he get these great contacts?

pinklavenders · 14/08/2022 17:45

I can also tell you that accounting and finance is a completely pointless degree - anything worth knowing is repeated in your accountancy exams.

I agree with this 100%.

Having worked in Investment Banking myself, I can tell you that a degree in Maths, Economics, Engineering from a good Uni, ideally combined with language skills, will open way more doors. You don't need to go to Uni to learn Accounting & Finance - you'll learn all that on the graduate scheme where you take your professional exams.

Needmoresleep · 14/08/2022 18:02

I found being an accountant interesting and varied. It was a way into the industry I wanted to work in, a good training, and lots of scope to move into general management or consultancy. I still find bits of the general financial knowledge I gained then, whether to do with tax, compound interest, marketing, share pricing and dividends, or whatever, is useful. And being financially literate really did help in subsequent more generalist jobs. Even when quite junior I got to work together with a variety of senior managers, costing products and marketing campaigns, working on pricing, and helping to produce month financial reports. Back then an economics degree gave me some exemptions, and my experience was that if you were reasonably disciplined the rest were not too hard.

I think I would have found auditing quite dry. My understanding is that the LSE degree at least, has quite an academic focus. If you find finance and how it works interesting, I don't see why you would not enjoy the degree.

TizerorFizz · 14/08/2022 18:06

@pinklavenders
DS is studying History, Maths and Economics so engineering really is not possible! I think Economics and Finance from a top university would be better but he doesn’t have FM which might limit choices even if the university doesn’t specify FM.

ShanghaiDiva · 14/08/2022 18:30

Rummikub · 14/08/2022 17:39

Out of interest how did he get these great contacts?

we were living in China at the time and dh’s company used pwc so asked a favour of the partner. In China contacts are everything.. the work experience with two other businesses were through contacts I had. I think these experiences helped to inform his decision, but I think his predicted grades which were much higher than the course requirement probably secured his offer rather than the personal statement: requirement was ib 38 and he was predicted 43

Rummikub · 14/08/2022 18:39

Great contacts!

yes I think knowing people is still key to progression.

Op can you both think of contacts you have? Someone that runs a business or a local charity? For work experience.

I would also suggest Springpod for virtual work experience. Future learn also do free short on line courses- look to see if anything of interest or relevance comes up.

As pp stated check entry reqs (not just grades) of the unis. Get your ds to go on Student Room and there’s a few relevant threads or he can ask his own question. Does his school / college put many though UCAS applications? There should be someone there to help him in any case.

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