Trigger warning - Deaths/suicides at uni

[GreenLunchBox]

After being shocked/saddened by some close to home uni deaths this year I did a search and it seems it's not rare. Five at Cambridge
just by July this year, for example www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/11/university-of-cambridge-launches-inquiry-after-five-suspected-suicides

Someone did a recent series of freedom of information requests and most unis have a few deaths each year, with suicide being a common cause

Does anyone know if the rate is higher than in the general population in this age group? If so, is it a problem that's getting worse, and what can we do about it?

That's a misrepresentation @mumsneedwine poor students with good grades have always got to universityif they wanted to. Widening participation is also about the gradual dropping of entry criteria.

@BearGryllsDad no, that's not what it is. My students mostly still have to get the same grades as everyone else. What WP does is gets them an interview where they might not have done due to lack of experience or extra curricular opportunities. In some cases WP is about lower grades, but even if it is it us usually only one grade, so AAB not AAA. And it's for good reason. V easy to get an A star with 5 in your class, less so with 29.

@BearGryllsDad
Actually that’s quite an interesting debate. I’m not sure severe anxiety or MH is entirely linked to the “wrong “ DC being at university. In my mind it’s finding the right course and university and greater choice surely helps?

FWIW, when I did a HE course at a Poly, entry to the degree was 2 A levels. Not 3. We did have great polytechnics that very much took the education of their students seriously and many were well prepared for work. The qualifications needed have crept upwards bit they are probably still taking the slightly less academic DC. I really don’t see what’s wrong with that. What might need looking at is if there are too many “academic” courses where students don’t have great outcomes. However whether that is linked to poor MH is difficult to judge I think.

1330 drugs deaths in Scotland each year might well be of gr DDs t concern too!

1330 drugs deaths in Scotland each year might well be of gr DDs t concern too!

Drug use is a significant contributor to student mental health issues. While students are drinking less alcohol, drug use is far higher than it was when many of us were at university. It’s an unspoken issue, so rife that most universities turn a blind eye to it.

Finding the right course is vital for everyone. Lots of private school kids get shoehorned into Unis to do 'academic' stuff when they'd rather do Arty or DT things. I think there is an issue with imposter syndrome with some of my students, but the WP teams are fantastic at helping them settle and realise their worth.
I think unfortunately young people have suffered so much through covid and their MH has been affected.

@mumsneedwine
Where DD2 went to 6th form, (private girls’ boarding) it was the very rich girls who did art - and my DD! They could afford to. And brilliant they were too! It’s a risky subject for people who need to earn money though.

I have also seen quite a few immigrant children pushed into medicine, pharmacy and similar because it’s seen as a professional career. It’s not just the privately educated who have parents with clear ideas about careers!

V true. No idea why parents need to have any input into the choice.

@mumsneedwine
Because it’s cultural. It’s like arranged marriages and other things parents get involved with. When my DD1 did MFL our local garage owner asked what use was that? He is Sri Lankan but sees learning is about jobs, not academic subjects.,He very much agreed it was a good career move for DD to do the GDL! However some DC are pressurised. No doubt about it!

However I do think there are bigger issues such as DC feeling they must get a first, not being good at everything when they get to university, not realising they need help, not telling anyone, drinking and socialising too much and lots of other things. I do hope all DC make the right choices for them.

My university (Liverpool) trumpets its mental health provision, but they don't half make it hard to access. I had some problems in the first year of my PhD in 2017, and emailed the mental health team to access some help - a phone call with a counsellor, to get my thoughts in order. They said I had to come in person to the campus to register. I couldn't get out of bed! The idea of having to deal with going out and travelling to campus was more than I was capable of at the time. I was lucky enough to be able to afford a couple of private counselling sessions, otherwise I might have spiralled even further.

BBC News - Cambridge University's mental health service ineffective, says report
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-62306091

Thanks, @Nonameoclue . A very interesting article. Sadly Cambridge is not alone. At my uni the MH service appears to be woefully underfunded. Even before COVID, I have walked a student in crisis over to the Counselling Centre to find no MH professional on site, only a receptionist. There was a line of students with their mobiles waiting for a phone assessment from an MH practitioner. If desperate, they would be referred to hospital. Otherwise they would receive an appointment at some time in the future.

At Mitigating Circumstances panels we were always told that students had to be nearly suicidal to receive more than three appointments. This is a large Russell Group Uni that prides itself on excellence in all things. Beyond shocking.

This old chestnut. Of course it's a fucking debt

No doubt they'll change the rules down the line and it will be deducted from their pensions!

Let's say you're struggling and after two years want to drop out. Let's say you live in London and received the max maintenance loan. That's £44k of debt and no degree. It would certainly take a massive toll on your mental health. This person wouldn't be a graduate if they dropped out so how is that a graduate tax??? It's debt.

It is debt. They should have introduced a simple 1% graduate tax for everyone for their working lives. Would have been less expensive for graduates but raise more money for the revenue - most people will not pay their loans back. But no one had the balls to do this as it would have meant rich kids paying more and mummy and daddy not being able to pay it for them.

Yup.

We've seen from this leadership contest that that demographic lap up anything that will make life harder for the poor. Hence Truss and Sunak competing to outdo each other in the awfulness stakes.

Sorry some off us had our fees paid for my employers and recieved very low wages while going through uni.

@Dinoteeth lucky you. Still think you should pay a graduate tax as the fees don't cover the full cost, which is under written by the government.

They can't expect to have graduate tax on people who were funded privately Or people who graduated overseas.

However I do agree the Uni fees and funding needs a complete overhaul.

Why not ? Why doesn't everyone have to pay back - no one would then need to privately fund and every graduate would be treated the same. Be much fairer (to everyone except the mega rich).

You'd have to then allow businesses to put students on courses for free as well as full-time students.
Which in turn would allow the students to get better pay when in trainee wages.

One assumes if you have a graduate tax then you wouldn't be charging fees.

It seems the figures aren't being reported properly so we don't really know if the uni figure is higher or lower than the figure for non-uni goers of the same age www.nationalworld.com/news/uk/most-uk-universities-do-not-know-how-many-students-die-suicide-3710503

I think it is extremely important that unis are informed if a death is suicide or not. How else will they know if there is a problem within their institution?

@Dinoteeth that would be my plan 😊. Free for everyone but everyone has to pay 1% on all earnings. Sure it would recoup more money and would be fairer (so won't happen).

But one though is graduates in theory should earning more than non-graduates so have a higher income level and higher chance of them paying 40% tax.

You also need to consider those who are self-employed and pay minimum wages to themselves taking the majority of income in dividends.

Or those who take their free degree and move abroad outwith the UK tax system.

On the whole I don't think the graduate tax would work.

Thank you for the link, @GreenLunchBox. In the article, UUK says it is hard to get statistics because coroners don’t (always) share a finding of suicide with the uni.

This is a poor excuse. Every suspected suicide in the U.K. must be subject to a public inquest. When a suicide occurs at uni, it would be a minimal sign of respect for the dead for a staff member to attend, and the outcome could be learnt immediately.

Admittedly this doesn’t address suicides away from uni but it would be a good start.