End of Oxbridge elitism?

[mids2019]

Noted only two of the conservative leadership candidates (out of 5) went to Oxbridge and only one in the public school/Oxbridge mould.

Could it be that parliamentarians and the general public are less inclined to look at university attendance when choosing their leaders?

If Penny Mordaunt wins I believe she will be the first Reading graduate to become PM and apart from Brown and Major this would break a pretty endless stream of Oxbridge grads into the highest public office.

I think 3/5 were Oxbridge educated and 3/5 went to fee paying schools at some point.

Sunak- Winchester College (fee paying), Lincoln College Oxford Uni
Mordaunt- Oaklands Catholic School (comp), Reading Uni
Truss- Roundhay School (comp), Merton College Oxford Uni
Badenoch- Phoenix college (fee paying), Uni of Sussex
Tugendhat- St Paul’s (fee paying), Uni of Bristol & Cambridge Uni

So is this kind of indicating that possibly independent schooling may be conferring advantage instantly of university. Granted this is a sample of one but it is quite an important job.

I believe Truss was critical of her old school despite it giving her an education that allowed her Oxford entry.@

It's politics but cabinet ministers are briefing anonymously about Penny's intellectual capacity which I think is quite awful. You do not need to go to certain universities to be Prime Minisiter and maybe this is a vestige of elitism that has been a feature of this country for decades of not cwnturies.

Truss plays down that Roundhay is the nicest area of Leeds!

@mids2019
I have met Penny Mordaunt. She’s not that bright! She’s personable and good looking. But someone with policies, deep thinking and great ideas in these troubled times? Not a chance. That’s why she doesn’t say what her economic policy would be. She’s up there because she’s not Boris. Anyone who’s been to Winchester and Oxford is clearly very bright. I don’t necessarily care about their background but we need someone with a good brain. Penny M isn’t it.

I also recommend @mids2019 that you read the Matthew Parris article in The Times yesterday. It’s enlightening about muddled thinking and the fact we need leadership with brains. I agree. And truthfulness: not a series of promises with no understanding of consequences (or basic economics). Or platitudes with no deep thought as regards policy. We need intelligence and brains and I don’t care where they were educated but politicians are not all high achievers. They are skilled at manipulating and seeking advancement and votes. Simply not the same and not what we need.

Politics is not for the thin skinned but can we say Boris was particularly brilliant intellectually? I guess Rishi does have an economic background but a PM could compensate by obviously appointing a very good chancellor

Intelligence is an important but certainly not the only attribute in politics and judging the degree of personal appeal is challenging in a country of 65 million people

I think the question is what do the conservatives want? Penny might hit the right note with connections to the military which is a big tick in conservative circles. A lack of oratory dexterity could come across as refreshing compared to the over slick presentation of others. ...I simply don't know and time will tell.

I don't think the electorate as a whole gives very much thought to where politicians were educated. And those who think an Oxbridge degree in and of itself is an essential prerequisite to occupying high office are no more sensible than the types who think clever people have no idea about the 'real world'.

Never looked at where a candidate went to uni before choosing them. Agree with @DahliaMacNamara

@mids2019
Yes. I think BJ was intelligent but he used it in a way that’s not acceptable. I don’t think a PM had to write books or newspaper articles. They do need integrity and also be able to intellectually understand what policies are needed. Just spouting out platitudes is not good enough. Nor is just looking good.

The Conservatives have a poor record of choosing leaders. IDS, Howard, Hague and Johnson plus May are all car crashes. Cameron led us Brexit showdown and politicians since then have struggled as they seek to curry favour with the party members. Johnson didn’t appoint the best people. He appointed Brexit brethren. They may well continue to choose a leader with dubious credentials yet again. Hopefully not.

Also the shamefaced appeal to older Tory members is atrocious. The abandoning of the young and under 40s is appalling.

Do the tour's need someone with a non elitist background to keep the new working class Tories on side? A lack of intellectual alactricity could be viewed as refreshing by some in era of well polished politicians? Penny's back story could be an advantage compare to Rishi and the connection with the military is a big rock for many.

Rishi is allegedly attractive but his appearance has not been brought up recently. To my mind the swimsuit thing has been focussed on a little more. Whether this is sexist will be up to individual judgment.

Ri shi not being committed to tax cuts might not appeal to the Tory base and there are still a lot that view his resignation as treacherous. Boris isn't finished yet and I think he is p*ed off with Rishi and may do all he is able to stop his ascent?

Tax is a very interesting debate. DD has just come to the end of her fixed term mortgage. She now fully understands inflation and what it does to interest rates. She’s now fixed for 5 years. They need to control inflation or we have serious financial concerns for people with a mortgage. Cutting taxes fuels inflation. I think everyone working should pay NI. No cut off at 65. The older grey vote is always protected. I’m one of them!

Yes, the Tories want to keep those seats. I’ve no doubt the feedback from them is less tax but they will be suffering with high inflation too. Just wait until those pips squeak.

I gather Penny Mordaunt was a lightweight in the debate yesterday. Not surprised. Liz Truss is right about supporting business and tax cuts appeal to Tories. Whether the northern seats who voted on Brexit lines will stay Tory is another matter. That’s the problem with one issue voting and a lack of economic nous.

However I do think inflation is the big enemy for most Tory voters and indeed everyone else. The truth usually hurts and some of this is self inflicted. Brexit will cost business and we have shortages. Too much money in the system fuels inflation. It’s a short term feel good until there’s more inflation. Our first mortgage was 15%. Yes, we had 10% deposit and could afford the property but who wants to get near those rates again? Total disaster.

Just to add: everyone/everything has problems at the moment. The state is struggling with the NHS, COVID effects, education, lack of skilled staff, financing huge vanity projects, cost of living, levelling up, government borrowing levels, net zero costs, etc etc etc. Have the candidates talked about this in any detail. No. Of course not. These highly educated people are mostly dodging the issues snd talking about trans people and how woke the BBC is. Whilst Rome is burning. Tory members have an eye on one thing: winning the next election by not taking hard decisions that affect the grey vote.

I don’t think Boris is that intelligent. He couldn’t use contraception correctly. He got covid badly then continued to risk himself and others pointlessly. He may fancy himself as an intellectual but he didn’t get a first from Oxford and he chose the easiest degree to get in. Narcissists sometimes appear more intelligent than they are but fall down by not being able to see the overall picture as everything is about oneself.

@ZandathePanda
Its easier to get in because few schools prep for his subject. Arch and Anth is similar.

Johnson’s intelligence was mostly directed at promoting himself and avoiding responsibility.

@TizerorFizz Its also easier because it has the lowest number of applicants for each space.

There are several degrees in this category! The trouble is that no degree preps for being PM if you are out for yourself!

Intelligence can be a double edged sword. The brighter you are, the more easily you will see the flaws in every argument, including your own, so the more you will see there is no perfect solution to most problems. This could lead to procrastination, or a desire to be more honest with the public about the reality of the choices to be made than they appreciate.

An ability to weigh up all the facts and arguments requires a reasonable level of intelligence, but to come to a decision in good time and to give others the confidence to trust you and go along with your decisions, is more a feature of personality than intelligence. This is why bullshitters and propagandists can so easily get into power - because people mistake intelligence for lack of confidence in your own decisions, and bullshit/dangerous propaganda as godlike decisiveness and reassuring confidence.

i do think some of the issues facing us will need creative solutions. The worry is that rhetoric and vote winning and party member pleasing gets in the way. So no further debate I hear. The two former cabinet members have put the party division in the spotlight and have been persuaded to stop attacking each other!

The role of PM requires many attributes. Influencing and negotiating skills are desperately required.

Do some really consider only one highly intelligent individual is all that is required ?

@OrangeCinnamonCroissant
No. They require a myriad of skills. Intelligence is one. Johnson famously never did detail. Not as Mayor or FS or PM. His intelligence lay elsewhere. Being truthful is another skill in short supply. Even Liz Truss trashed her own school in leafy Roundhay in Leeds. Big backlash on that today. It got her to Oxbridge! Influencing and negotiating on a world stage - yes. With the arguing cabinet? It’s so time consuming to have splits and coping with the ERG and the right of the party.

However anyone coping with all the issues facing this country will need a fierce grip on solutions and detail. Platitudes and sound bites are not good enough.